eBay

jbos2466 · ‎07-06-2018

So basically the best way to look at it is Ebay is forcing returns on all listings no matter what. Even listings marked no returns. This is a total dream for Scammers, 30 day Use Abuse and returners, People who break items, Buyer's remorse, and people who find the item cheaper up to 30 days after purchase.

This is a complete nightmare.

Couple that with their new no picture or proof requirements. WOW. Litterarlly night and day policy change from when I first opened my store.

I had a buyer last Friday open a return and state a new exterior plastic car part accessory was "all scratched up."

I packaged it myself. I wrapped it with many layers of non scratch cellophane. Wrapped it with packing paper on top of that then bubble wrapped it. Put it in a larger box than needed. Filled that with additional packing paper. Then, even marked the box “Fragile” on all sides and sent Priority.

This was listed as a No return sold as is listing. Marked that way in the Ebay listing options . I even restated this in the description too.

I apologized to the buyer for the inconvenience. I asked the buyer 3 very simple and basic questions. Even though the item was a NO RETURN item, I would gladly have made the situation right with a full refund or another item if the item legitimately arrived scratched up.

I asked:

Can you send pictures of the damage?
Have you used or mounted the item in anyway?
How was the box and packaging condition when it arrived?

The buyer never responded to those questions. Ignored them. The buyer replied with “What is your return policy” Then he sent a 2nd message a few seconds after stating the item he received “was the wrong part # and looks different than ones on display at his auto parts store.” A completely different claim now.

So again I asked for pics of the damage so I can get this taken care of for him. I also asked for clarification of if the item was damaged or just the wrong part number. I also stated that the return policy is clearly listed in the listing terms and again in the description. It says no returns, but I will work with you to fix the issue if it did arrive damaged just send pics and reply to the questions in the first message.

The buyer responded again ignoring the 2nd request for pictures and stated “it’s just a tiny scratch, but it doesn’t look the one’s he saw at his local store and it came in a generic box and his main reason is that he doesn’t believe it’s the right part #.

I again asked the buyer to please send pictures of the damage and the part # now. FOR THE THIRD TIME. Meanwhile it’s been a week at this point of Ebay holding my money for the item.

I’ve talked with 3 different Ebay reps. They all say the buyer changed their story and is inconsistent. That the buyer is purposefully ignoring the request for pics. However, with the new rules and policies they can’t do anything and my money will have to remain on hold until I take the return!!!!!!!!! Then the money goes to the buyer….lol

To add insult to injury they want me to pay for the return label.

So now I will have a damaged non sellable item. Or a different Item that is worthless that I wouldn’t sell.

And be out for the original shipping label and another return label.

So you can 100% lose money being a seller on Ebay at this point. Lose a $60 item...and be charged $20 in useless shipping charges.

I will be down $80 for one simple transaction. What a horrible horrible policy for the sellers.

Any suggestions?????

jbos2466 · ‎07-06-2018

well said. agree 100%

jbos2466 · ‎07-06-2018

True Story.

lcw987 · ‎07-06-2018

I don't think you were selling on ebay in 1995. Things WERE different then, some not so good, most things better, in my opinion. ebay was less involved, charging lower fees. A newbie who started off by changing mind about paying for won auction item (before BIN arrived) would be instantly identified with a -1 or -2 feedback record, to whom other sellers could refuse to sell. You could sell a used item and know that after the buyer had it for 3 days, it was your option to accept as return if buyer dawdled in checking it out. If buyer made purchase mistake or regretted buying decision, or didn't like the color, options were usually keep it, toss it, give it away, sell it - but don't think it can be returned. Seemed sensible to me.

zamo-zuan · ‎07-06-2018

Plain and honest, eBay does not protect you in some cases from buyers exploiting the system and there's nothing we can do about it.

We had a customer who ordered an Innovative Engine Mount Kit. It's a high performance auto part. She opened a claim with us stating that her mechanic told her "only one of the front mounts fit, the others did not". A quick google research of this item would PROVE that the ONLY vehicle that front mount fits in, also fits all the other items.

EBay would not accept that. So we were forced to allow the return.

Once we receive the return, 3 of the 4 mounts were VERY OBVIOUSLY installed. Very deep bolt marks, making the item now un-sellable. There's no market for used motor mounts as used mounts won't balance the engine properly.

EBay tells us they do not accept pictures. The customer "said they did not use it and is not admitting it so we have no evidence".

I look at the pictures the buyer submitted, and in the BUYERS OWN PICTURES, you see a pristine shiny mount, the 2nd picture they have that same mount upside down on the CEMENT, 3rd pic it's right side up with clear scratches on the shiny metal that were not there earlier!

I noted that the scratches in the buyers own pictures were not there earlier, and that the pictures we provided have matching damage.

EBay will not accept it as evidence. Even if it's in the customers own pictures, not the ones we provided!

"The only option we have is to work with the customer". So we call up the customer. She has a very distinct accent from another dialect/country. She is sticking to her story that the mechanic said they don't fit and she "doesn't know anything about it". We asked, "did you notice the damage before you shipped it back to us?". Her answer: "Oh, my mechanic wrapped that up for me too".

We say "Okay then, is it possible to speak to your mechanic?".

At 4PM PST, which is 7PM EST, and this customer is in eastern time... "Oh, sure, he is right here one second". She hands the phone to a gentleman who has the SAME EXACT ACCENT as she does. So her "mechanic" is obviously a husband/boyfriend/brother/family member of some sort.

In the end, we ended up having to stick with the charge for return shipping, in had to give a full refund.

I'm not sure why eBay customer service is not allowed to use their judgement at all, and has to stick with policies that don't support protection from abusive situations.

tunicaslot · ‎07-06-2018

I see alot of assumptions and you know what they say about people who "assume".

Ebay once considered pictures but has never required them. As of 4/1/18 - all SNAD returns will be accepted by a seller - who then can appeal the dicision and Ebay will most likely pay you back if you have proof.

Has anyone filed a report on these buyers? No better way to get them on Ebay's radar than to report them.

Have you filed Mail Fraud charges with the PO? It's a federal offense to mail something back other than what was sent.

Have you filed a police report with their law enforcement. Karma - usually they don't pull this scam on just one seller and are on the authorities radar.

Filed an IC3 - again putting them on radar.

I do all three - write the buyer that they must have mislabeled the packages as what I received is not what was sent. I then go on to say if they didn't mix things up - I'll have to have the postal authorities open an investigation as it's a federal crime to tamper wth the mail and obviously somewhere along the route it was tampered with - so be aware the Postal investigators may need to contact you for information. Make em sweat.

If you've done none of this - then you shouldn't complain as fraud is rampant on every venue. Google the other venues and you will find ratings of these venues along with their stories. Go to the other venues discussion boards - you find similar posts about fraud and how the River would do nothing for them and made them accept the return. Actually - other places don't give the sellers a choice and automatically issue a return label and charge it to the seller so they don't have a chance to fight it.

No one on these boards is a plant or employee - just regular Ebay sellers and buyers. I'd be rich if I had a nickle each time I've been called a troll, Ebay employee ect... You're upset and rightfully so - but that's the way the game is played here - don't like it go play in someone else's sandbox.

jbos2466 · ‎07-06-2018

Take your own advice.
You have paragraphs of assumptions as well. How can you call out an assumption when literally half your post is an assumption on what sellers did or did not do? FAIL
No i'm not sending threats to buyer's about postal fraud and getting USPS involved when this is an Ebay issue that they use to regulate.
What other places are you generically referring too ?

jbos2466 · ‎07-06-2018

Did you try to file an appeal and item sent back heavily used or damaged case?
Ebay reps keep claiming its just that easy..... "Just file an appeal and we will take your word on for it."

zamo-zuan · ‎07-06-2018

@tunicaslot wrote:
I see alot of assumptions and you know what they say about people who "assume".
It's not an assumption that the item they confirmed fit, only goes on a vehicle that fits all the other ones.

Nor is it an assumption that the ones they sent back obviously fit, because they had bolt marks that were extremely tight.

Nor is it an assumption that the woman and her "mechanic" were lying directly to us.

Nor is it an assumption that their own pictures 100% proved that they did damage to the items.

Has anyone filed a report on these buyers? No better way to get them on Ebay's radar than to report them.
We did. And they were on eBay's radar as multiple support representatives seen it as well.

Have you filed Mail Fraud charges with the PO? It's a federal offense to mail something back other than what was sent.
Federal law would not help us in the case where the customer used the item and lied.

If you've done none of this - then you shouldn't complain as fraud is rampant on every venue. Google the other venues and you will find ratings of these venues along with their stories. Go to the other venues discussion boards - you find similar posts about fraud and how the River would do nothing for them and made them accept the return. Actually - other places don't give the sellers a choice and automatically issue a return label and charge it to the seller so they don't have a chance to fight it.
We've done much of that. My issue is not that they forced a return. My complaint is that we were not protected at all, while the clear fitment evidence was ignored, and the representatives are not able to use their own judgement when even the buyers own pictures incriminated himself.

No one on these boards is a plant or employee - just regular Ebay sellers and buyers. I'd be rich if I had a nickle each time I've been called a troll, Ebay employee ect... You're upset and rightfully so - but that's the way the game is played here - don't like it go play in someone else's sandbox.
Many sellers are doing so. We had trust in eBay for many years. Our mistake was to have faith in this trust, as eBay managers have personally visited our store due to our success and told us we could call on them if we have any issues.

But nowdays, it is not possible to get a hold of those people anymore. And trust me, we have paid the price for focusing our store 100% on eBay. The issues this year have cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars, and cost us our position as #1 in the category, and only 1 seller out of the top 10 sellers in the category have benefit from these changes. The market of our category was up by 6% this year, and the market of the top sellers dropped by 8% this year. This proves without a doubt that sellers who make a career on eBay are suffering except in exceptional lucky cases. And these people are people who understand eBay and have been here for years. Verify this on Terapeak.

Your tune might be a bit different if a selling platform worked to gain your trust, so you supported them (just at the end of last year we stocked additional warehouse for eBay Guaranteed Delivery), and then your store suffers for that investment, and the trust was broken.

emerald40 · ‎07-06-2018

@ekmadonna wrote:
They may not "REQUIRE" photos but "THEY ABSOLUTELY DO LOOK AT THEM" if any have been sent. I have had 3 cases closed in my favor in the past because CS reviewed the sent photos. Your statement is not true sorry.

I sent them photos of my ran over former platinum wedding band.

They told me they do not consider photos because they have no way of knowing if it is of the actual item.

So yes in my case it is true, unfortunately. They would not consider my photos.

emerald40 · ‎07-06-2018

@lcw987 wrote:
I don't think you were selling on ebay in 1995. Things WERE different then, some not so good, most things better, in my opinion. ebay was less involved, charging lower fees. A newbie who started off by changing mind about paying for won auction item (before BIN arrived) would be instantly identified with a -1 or -2 feedback record, to whom other sellers could refuse to sell. You could sell a used item and know that after the buyer had it for 3 days, it was your option to accept as return if buyer dawdled in checking it out. If buyer made purchase mistake or regretted buying decision, or didn't like the color, options were usually keep it, toss it, give it away, sell it - but don't think it can be returned. Seemed sensible to me.

1995? Ebay existed back then?

I did not start until April 1999.

And I remember back then. And buyers were at the mercy of sellers. They could send you junk or nothing at all, and tough.

My kids saved their allowancees to buy their father an expensive box of football cards. Seller claimed he had a fire and lost everything. Two days later he was back to selling. My kids lost their money and not a thing we could do about it.

ekmadonna · ‎07-06-2018

Sorry to hear that they would not consider your side, 2 examples when they have closed the case immediatly for me are- sold a hockey trophy topper to buyer who claimed damage and sent pics, He actually TIED a piece of rubber band around the leg and so blatently obvious it was ridiculous. CS rep atually lauged with me on the phone and closed the case instantly in my favor. 2nd example- sold a carnival glass bowl to a woman, the bowl had a tiny flea bite flake to the underside and was photographed with a pen pointing to it and described accuratley. She opened a case sent photos and claimed item not as described. The picture she sent had a HUGE chunk out of the side where the flea bite flake was. My opinion was she had to have taken a knife handle to it to make the damage appear more than the actual flea bite. Blatent Destruction, CS agreed and instantly closed case in my favor. I have no idea how they rule on these cases but THEY DO LOOK AT PICTURES.

slippinjimmy · ‎07-06-2018

1995? Ebay existed back then?

I did not start until April 1999.

eBay opened it's "doors" in October 1995, the eBay IPO was in September 1998.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep

emerald40 · ‎07-06-2018

@ekmadonna wrote:
Sorry to hear that they would not consider your side, 2 examples when they have closed the case immediatly for me are- sold a hockey trophy topper to buyer who claimed damage and sent pics, He actually TIED a piece of rubber band around the leg and so blatently obvious it was ridiculous. CS rep atually lauged with me on the phone and closed the case instantly in my favor. 2nd example- sold a carnival glass bowl to a woman, the bowl had a tiny flea bite flake to the underside and was photographed with a pen pointing to it and described accuratley. She opened a case sent photos and claimed item not as described. The picture she sent had a HUGE chunk out of the side where the flea bite flake was. My opinion was she had to have taken a knife handle to it to make the damage appear more than the actual flea bite. Blatent Destruction, CS agreed and instantly closed case in my favor. I have no idea how they rule on these cases but THEY DO LOOK AT PICTURES.

One thing we can consistently say about ebay and that is their inconsistancy.

A buyer purposely damaging an item is the reason I now accept returns for any reason.

It was an expensive lesson for me. My main goal now is to get the item back in one piece because at least then I can resell it.

emerald40 · ‎07-06-2018

@slippinjimmy wrote:
1995? Ebay existed back then?

I did not start until April 1999.

eBay opened it's "doors" in October 1995, the eBay IPO was in September 1998.

It must have been called something else back then.

I remember we got our first computer for Christmas 1996. In the schools my children attended a computer was almost mandatory and it was easier than them having to always go to the library.

I remember doing a bit of searching during the day when they were in school, but I do not remember seeing ebay until the end of 1998. April 1999 was when I got the courage to sign up and try it out.

carlmarxx · ‎07-06-2018

@emerald40 wrote:
@slippinjimmy wrote:
1995? Ebay existed back then?

I did not start until April 1999.

eBay opened it's "doors" in October 1995, the eBay IPO was in September 1998.

It must have been called something else back then.

I remember we got our first computer for Christmas 1996. In the schools my children attended a computer was almost mandatory and it was easier than them having to always go to the library.

I remember doing a bit of searching during the day when they were in school, but I do not remember seeing ebay until the end of 1998. April 1999 was when I got the courage to sign up and try it out.