More USPS incompetence re Standard Envelope for Coins........

[allen1853]

Ebay has negotiated a special rate with USPS that applies to up to six coins, postcards and sports cards. It is called a Standard Envelope and comes with limited tracking acceptable to eBay and up to $20 in insurance, for about a dollar up to 3 ounces. It is a bargain and the only way I can sell inexpensive coins. But it only works if USPS employees know about it. I had one buyer charged full price postage due for First Class Package by his mail carrier, over $4. I reimbursed him. Today I had one returned to me postage due 39 cents for non-machine surcharge. The envelope complied with all USPS/Ebay Standard Envelope requirements. Instead of arguing I took it to the counter at my branch to pay the 39 cents and stupidly try to inform the counter clerk about the rate.  No, I was wrong as she snapped her chewing gum. I explained I have most, 20 to one, recognized and delivered by USPS. "Oh no, they just did not catch them." She chraged me 42 cents for non machine (including the 3 cents more for first class ignoring the additional Standard Envelope discount) then REFUSED to do anything about the Return to Sender sticker. She let me remove it but refused to mark it Paid or similar. I plan to print out the Standard Envelope specs and tape them to the back of every envelope. For all the good it will do.....

[farmalljr]

Standard envelope is NOT a program negotiated between USPS and eBay. The tracking has been around for YEARS. It's just a letter tracking, and I'm pretty sure the program was never intended to be used the way eBay is applying it. Coins are not flexible, like postcards or trading cards. Even then, multiple sports cards are less flexible than multiple postcards. 

For clarity, the tracking is NOT USPS tracking. I'm sure the OP understand that, but most don't know any different. 

Sorry you are upset, but this program has been a joke since it was offered. I quickly removed it's shipping policy from my store. It's a great way for a seller to ding up their metrics. It's a cheap-er way to ship. It is not reliable nor is it beneficial to most sellers. 

[onefootflipper]

Don't put the coin in the middle, offset it to the side so it will be able to fold in half. Never hand these to the person at the counter or do anything to draw attention to them.

It works fine without them knowing about it. The postmaster at my local post office claims it doesn't exist and that ebay has no deal with the post office at all. 

I drop mine in a high volume box that is not served by the same post office that delivers my mail. 

I am pivoting out of standard envelope items at the moment, but I still do at least 10 a day and was doing 50 a day until recently. I haven't had one returned to me in about a year since I stopped giving them to my local post office.

[itscalledapostingid]

It needs to look and feel just like any other letter and meet USPS specs for lettermail.

ESE is just lettermail postage that's purchased online with the benefit of having the Intelligent Mail barcode. You can't mail anything with it that can't be mailed with a regular 1st Class postage stamp.

Nothing about it should cause USPS workers to even look at it and start scrutinizing it.

[itscalledapostingid]

@onefootflipper wrote:

The postmaster at my local post office claims it doesn't exist and that ebay has no deal with the post office at all. 

That is true. Ebay doesn't even buy the ESE postage from USPS. It's done through a 3rd party vendor.

There's nothing about it in any USPS documents. Workers were never notified about it or anything.

[gotta-have-it-collectables]

Then why is it embedded into eBay's shipping service?

[eunster1313]

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@gotta-have-it-collectables wrote:

Then why is it embedded into eBay's shipping service?

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That's simple, to put more money in eBay's pocket.

[allen1853]

So eBay is committing fraud? They allow up to SIX coins for the envelope. How is one to ship six coins without 2 x 2s or some sort of packaging? Shipping a post card or trading card without some sort of protection is asking for the USPS to chew it up and throw what is left away. I have quite a few First Class Packages just disappear. I am sure they are damaged and ash canned by USPS employees. Unless you pay extra  for insurance you are SOL. If the Standard Envelope is NOT pursuant to some agreement between Ebay and USPS then they are being deceptive and dishonest. Should we be surprised? 

[itscalledapostingid]

@allen1853 

You can't mail anything with Ebay Standard Envelope that can't be mailed with a regular 1st Class postage stamp.

That's all you need to know about it.

[murphy71605]

I have been using ESE from the beginning and have had good success and nowhere near the problems that others have had. The key to using this service service is to make the letters look like any other letter. I only sell sportscards and I ship them much like a credit card is shipped. Offset the toploaded card to one side if you can and keep it well under 1/4". Do not add cardboard or anything that will thicken the envelope. Use a good quality regular envelope and secure the item so it doesn't slide around. Avoid excessive tape, Staples or anything that can cause problems going through the automated process. I only like to ship one card at a time and I would likely do the same with coins. I have done a few coins and shipped them in white envelopes packed in a card saver or Beckett shield as shown with no issues.

As a former USPS worker I was surprised when this service came out and knew immediately there would be problems with this service. Postal workers have always been instructed to remove any items that do not meet regular standard mail guidelines when it comes to machine processed mail. There was never any communication between the P.O and the roll-out of this service that I have seen.

[farmalljr]

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@allen1853 wrote:

So eBay is committing fraud? They allow up to SIX coins for the envelope. How is one to ship six coins without 2 x 2s or some sort of packaging? Shipping a post card or trading card without some sort of protection is asking for the USPS to chew it up and throw what is left away. I have quite a few First Class Packages just disappear. I am sure they are damaged and ash canned by USPS employees. Unless you pay extra  for insurance you are SOL. If the Standard Envelope is NOT pursuant to some agreement between Ebay and USPS then they are being deceptive and dishonest. Should we be surprised? 

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Meh, it's not really what eBay allows, it's what eBay thinks will sneek past the sort machines. Yeah, you COULD tape 6 pennies inside an envelope and get it through sort machines. Probably not with 50 cent pieces.  You can't buy extra insurance on ESE, you have insurance "automatically" up to $20. 

The whole program was a poor idea from the start. Coins, are a bad choice of item to send ESE. So are cards, if them getting bent/creased is a concern. 

I ship everything first class again. No sense in using the ESE for me, because I got "dings" from "late shipments". I have no control over when these are sorted or if the machines read the scans. It isn't like regular tracked shipping. I don't need the aggravation.  Purely, this was introduced because some sellers were selling/sending with just a stamp. eBay wanted a slice of the shipping, even if it's just a few cents per transaction. It makes them bank, or they would not have bothered to do it. 

[onefootflipper]

I have not mailed any coins but the service works just fine for cards as long as your envelope looks just like any other mail going through the system. 

I don't even use top loaders. I just sandwich the purchased card between 2 baseball cards, put that into a gaming sleeve (the kind people use to protect magic cards while playing the game), and tape that off-center inside the envelope. I alternate left to right from one order to the next so my resulting mail sits flat and isn't apparently lopsided. 

I will go up to 5 gaming cards or 3 sports cards thick before putting a second sleeve of cards in on the other side. For larger orders I use cut up binder pages and spread the cards out between the 3 pockets.  I have yet to ever have a post office issue with any larger order, every issue I have had has been with the smaller ones. In fact back in the first week when I was having trouble with them getting returned to my house the exact same clerk who I turned to for help examined both an envelope that actually had 21 cards in it, and another with 4, and she rejected the one with 4 and said the one with 21 in it was fine. 

I don't use top loaders because they have more trouble getting through the system, the insurance always pays out anyway, and I would have spent $900 on top loaders last year and I had something like $30 in damage claims. Most of those claims I personally thought were fraudulent, but the insurance paid out on them anyway.  The claims were almost all $1.99 Pokemon cards despite the fact that those aren't even 5 percent of my card business. Most of them came early in the service's history, likely from people who had previously been claiming not to have received their orders back when everyone shipped cards from stamps. I think I have only had 3 damage claims this year out of about 6000 envelopes. 

I am getting zero dings for late shipments on standard envelopes. Looking at my late shipment rate report It shows about 10 standard envelope orders but every one of them says "Transaction Removed". Both the items on there are things that the post office sat on for a long period of time before they ever moved or got scanned. Even the stuff my postman scans right in front of me often never actually seems to show accepted until it gets to the hub.

[dynamitedw]

I use Ebay Standard Envelope shipping. You have to follow the size and weight requirements I sell sports cards and use  a Stayflat Envelope with card  sleeved toploaded and put in a team bag that seems to Protect the card perfectly You cant go putting a bunch of thick Cards in them. I have had a  few get lost and show not delivered but I have never had an issue with getting my money back if needed through the insurance offered so I use it when available. 

[allen1853]

Then eBay is committing fraud and misleading sellers. That's all you need to know about it. 

[allen1853 · Accepted solution]

Thank you for all the input. Very helpful. I have come up with my own solution. The ESE is an advantage because it satisfies eBay's "tracking" requirements. They recognize it might not get sort scanned right away and I have never been penalized for "late shipment" even when there are NO scans. The ESE is cheap, LESS than First Class, 57 cents for one ounce vs 60 cents. AND it comes with up to $20 in insurance. The ESE enables me to sell coins etc. for $2, charge $1 for shipping, and build up my sales quantities to remain Top Seller in case I do ship something with a First Class stamp. But HERE is how I also satisfy USPS. The NON MACHINE surcharge is only 39 cents. I add 40 cents in stamps, or whatever I have 39 cents or more and put NON MACHINE SURCHARGE PAID in red on the envelope. There are still some USPS employees who have no idea what the non machine rate is, I have educated several, but it is valid and not trying to scam anyone like eBay is having us do. I cannot mark my own reply as "solved" but I have solved this for myself.