Just got a strange message supposedly from an agent of 5.11 Tactical

[rolenboy01]

This was not a VERO claim but a message from a supposed enforcer for 5.11 Tactical

"Dear rolenboy01:

It has recently come to our attention that your business is displaying, promoting, and offering for sale various 5.11 Tactical® products, yet we do not have a record of you as being an authorized reseller. An unauthorized reseller cannot display our trademarks in such a way as to create the impression with consumers that the reseller is an authorized reseller. In addition, please be advised that any images of 5.11 Tactical® products taken or provided by 5.11 Tactical® are copyrighted material and sole property of 5.11 Tactical®, which may not be used without our consent."

As far as I can tell I am not implying I am an authorized reseller, is this a real cease and desist or just some idiot competitor trying to scare me?

I did find the same question on these forums from 2015 but they didn't really get many answers.

[thatsallfolks]

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emerald40 wrote: 

So should a seller put a blurb in their description that they are in no way affiliated with _______ company.

Wonder if that would satisfy a company such as this.

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If I were listing items with trademark implications, I probably would include that type of statement in my description. I'd probably also state that I had taken all of the photos.

[rolenboy01]

I just got an email back from the company

"Yes, I have reviewed the notice you received and then went to the legal depts.. record and photo of what was placed on the website for sale and there is definitely a violation of MAP pricing.

 

Please correct the issue and you will no longer appear on the report.

 

Thank you so much!"

What should I respond with?

[thatsallfolks]

I'm torn between advising you to ignore it, or to ask them why their legal department thinks MAP pricing applies under the First Sale Doctrine. Tell them to feel free to cite legal precedent.

[emerald40]

Yes, I would make it very clear to them that these items are from your closet and not new, so MAP would not apply.

[rolenboy01]

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

I'm torn between advising you to ignore it, or to ask them why their legal department thinks MAP pricing applies under the First Sale Doctrine. Tell them to feel free to cite legal precedent.

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Never understood MAP pricing anyway it sounds like Price Fixing with a nicer name, someone else already charged MAP pricing and someone paid it and they sold it to me at a loss that should have been the end of discussion.

[emerald40]

I am a bit confused.

First sale doctrine - does that apply to used items you have around the house.

So if your purchase them for resale from someone else how does this law apply?

And where is the cutoff between that and being a dealer?

[nowthatsjustducky]

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@rolenboy01 wrote:

Well they are in every single one of my listings which is close to 1700 there is no way im going to revise all of those so I guess I'm gonna be banned?  sounds like a stupid move on their part.

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I was under the impression that all they would be doing is preventing the "offending content" from loading, not removing listings or banning sellers that don't comply.

I'm handling these listings on a day by day basis now.  That is, when a listing with inline pictures and/or an embedded demo video comes up for relist on any given account's "daily listings", I edit out the inline images and videos; and in the case of videos, give the link (which has to be copied and pasted, not clicked on) to that video's address on my YT channel.  It could take up to a year, but eventually, all entries will be "cleaned" up to comply.

Also, before I remove the inline images, I go regrab them off Photobucket, if they are not still on my hard drive, so those entries can later be sent to eCrater or Etsy without me having to simply reshoot the pictures when the time comes.

Of course, that means that for the next few months, there are going to be plenty of listings still that show the "Please ugprade your account to our We Are Going to Violate You Plan" wherever an inline picture was supposed to be.  But at the moment, I don't care.  Since buyers reading past the first line are pretty rare anyway, I will deal with them when ready, instead of engaging in a bunch of busywork to pretty up the listings.

[rolenboy01]

I've got something in the works with shipscript at the active content board there may be a bulk solution to the problem so keep a look out over there.

[ymeagainlord]

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@rolenboy01 wrote:

I just got an email back from the company

"Yes, I have reviewed the notice you received and then went to the legal depts.. record and photo of what was placed on the website for sale and there is definitely a violation of MAP pricing.

 

Please correct the issue and you will no longer appear on the report.

 

Thank you so much!"

What should I respond with?

---

Please excuse me but I'm laughing so hard I can't type right now?

[rixstuff]

It makes perfect sense that the items would be priced less - they are USED!  Not sure why that company seems to think that theres are the only clothes on earth that appreciate instead of depreciating with use, time, wear, etc.

I ask again, are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that the people you are corresponding with are REALLY the company?  Or that the company truly has a clue where their rights end and yours start? 

Just me personally, once you buy something from me, you can give it to your dog to chew, set it on fire, run it over in your drive way, melt it, cut it into quilt scraps, or toss it in a lake.  IT ISNT MINE ANY MORE.

[couldabeenworse]

Your initial email appears to be legitimate, and wholly appropriate for your situation.  It was not a cease & desist demand, nor a VeRO takedown: it was entirely advisory. 

As long as your listings don't mislead consumers into thinking you are an Authorized Dealer and you don't use their copyrighted images, they have no complaint, and unlike some VeRO members - they don't appear to be looking to invent one.

The second message appears to be presuming you are an Authorized Dealer.  Since you are not, MAP is irrelevant.  There does not appear to me to be anything you need to do at this point.

[rolenboy01]

Just got this message

"

Hi:

As I continue to review, your photos are showing that there is men’s and women’s clothing that were listed for sale. Also in my review, I am seeing that the exact description from our website and/or catalog is describing the 5.11 Tactical items that you are selling.  In displaying our descriptions on your items for sale, leaves consumers with the impression that you are an authorized dealer of 5.11 Tactical. This creates an infringement of our trademark.  Again, I will request you to remove the items listed, as to prevent further legal action."

I still fail to find ANY description I supposedly stole from their website or catalog. Are they implying I can't use a similar item title to them even though it say its on the shirt?  I'm not sure what else to call it where people will find it easily without those keywords.

[annindallas]

This is actually pretty funny.

According to Google, there are two 5.1 tactical authorized dealers on ebay, and it looks like they're doing serious battle. 

How many letters from lawyers have you read that start with "Dear..."? And to emphasize the point: 

"Dear rolenboy01:

It has recently come to our attention that your business ...."

Lawyers don't speak like that. That's the language a parent uses to confront her child's teacher.

There are plenty of lawyers who can barely pass an IQ test, but every single one knows how to start a letter.

If it makes you feel better, call ebay and they will tell you if a vero has you in their crosshairs.

[rolenboy01]

It's all pretty stupid they really need to choose their battles wisely, the company is based in my hometown as far as I can tell or has offices here and I could get tons of people not to buy their products if I really wanted to.

[couldabeenworse]

Whomever you are corresponding with now is either a bot or an idiot.  Unfotunately, that leaves you to decide whether you make enough money from these items to deal with a bot or an idiot.