International buyer used forwarding address to purchase prohibited item

[cynicalpink]

Hi, all. Im in the U.S.

A buyer in Qatar purchased perfume from me, listing New York as their address. They’re now sending me copies of the emails sent by the forwarding company they used, which is threatening to dispose of the package, as (obviously) it’s illegal. 

I had no idea they were using a forwarding company. The problem is, USPS’ tracking number says the item is “still in transit” and hasn’t been updated in weeks. 

Without that confirmation from USPS that it was delivered (which it had to have been, considering the item is now sitting in Qatar customs — unless the seller made fake emails), what options do I have? 

Huge thanks to anyone who can help. 

[kensgiftshop]

Don't know why, but USPS has quit scanning most packages sent through a freight forwarder as delivered.

Save those emails, you might be able to use them, showing the buyer had the item forwarded to their country.

[cynicalpink]

Thanks for the intel about USPS’ scanning practices! I’m saving the emails and conversation now, just to be safe.

The buyer hasn’t opened a dispute; they’ve just been messaging me saying if I don’t want the perfume disposed of, I’ll need to pay return shipping (which… I imagine is crazy expensive, so I don’t want to touch that; not to mention, I wouldn’t even know how to do so without forwarding the buyer money — and that’s also a yikes). 

[kensgiftshop]

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@cynicalpink wrote:

Thanks for the intel about USPS’ scanning practices! I’m saving the emails and conversation now, just to be safe.

The buyer hasn’t opened a dispute; they’ve just been messaging me saying if I don’t want the perfume disposed of, I’ll need to pay return shipping (which… I imagine is crazy expensive, so I don’t want to touch that; not to mention, I wouldn’t even know how to do so without forwarding the buyer money — and that’s also a yikes). 

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If you have to pay any return shipping, it'll be from the freight forwarder, not the buyers country.

You would think if it was illegal to ship to their country, the freight forwarder would have stopped it.

[duffy4444]

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@cynicalpink wrote:

Hi, all. Im in the U.S.

A buyer in Qatar purchased perfume from me, listing New York as their address. They’re now sending me copies of the emails sent by the forwarding company they used, which is threatening to dispose of the package, as (obviously) it’s illegal. 

I had no idea they were using a forwarding company. The problem is, USPS’ tracking number says the item is “still in transit” and hasn’t been updated in weeks. 

Without that confirmation from USPS that it was delivered (which it had to have been, considering the item is now sitting in Qatar customs — unless the seller made fake emails), what options do I have? 

Huge thanks to anyone who can help. 

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@cynicalpink:

   You need to become educated about how to recognize that a US freight forwarding company is in the mix. Freight forwarders usually have the buyer's code or an extra line of letters and numbers in the FF address. That should immediately tip you off as to potential international customs problems.

   It is then up to YOU, the seller, to do your due diligence in making sure that any particular item is legal to send to another country. Granted, the address was to a US freight forwarder address, but when a FF is involved, they're only mostly concerned about bundling up a lot of orders and shipping them off. It is up to the seller to go to eBay and look up the country the buyer actually lives in (the buyer's feedback section), and then go to the USPS website to look at that country's import prohibitions and restrictions. In this case, if perfume is on that list, you must not ship it, even only to a US freight forwarder. The sale should immediately be cancelled by you, using "Problem with Buyer's Address" so you can avoid getting a performance demerit at eBay in addition to avoiding the loss of about $100 in this case.

   You should have been enrolled in eBay's EIS shipping program. If you had instead used eBay's EIS Illinois Shipping Hub for forwarding internationally, eBay would most likely have automatically checked Qatar's customs prohibitions and would have blocked the transaction from happening in the first place. I have personally experienced this a couple times when an international buyer messaged me and wanted to know why he couldn't purchase a particular item from me.

   The perfume will probably be destroyed in Qatar (or confiscated and given to a Qatar Customs family member), or be sent back to the FF. You would then have to jump thru a lot of hoops just to get it back from the FF, assuming that could even be possible.

   In the future, use eBay's EIS program and/or exclude Qatar as a destination for shipping perfume.

Cheers, Duffy

[bdmh-enterprises]

Using a FF voids the buyers MBG, BUT you need to have that delivery scan. You may be able to contact USPS and sometimes their internal system will show the delivery and they can update it for you.

Personally, I pay for sig conf if for anything over $100 if I see it going FF.

[duffy4444]

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@bdmh-enterprises wrote:

Using a FF voids the buyers MBG, BUT you need to have that delivery scan. You may be able to contact USPS and sometimes their internal system will show the delivery and they can update it for you.

Personally, I pay for sig conf if for anything over $100 if I see it going FF.

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@bdmh-enterprises:

    As I see it, tracking is an issue, but not the main issue here... the perfume is sitting in Qatar Customs and ready to be destroyed or otherwise confiscated or sent back to the seller via an unpredictable freight forwarder as the middleman. This is most likely an avoidable prohibited import issue that the OP could have prevented in the first place by noticing a freight forwarder was in the mix and that the item was most likely prohibited or restricted for import by Qatar.

Cheers, Duffy

[tobaccocardyahoo]

This is all after the fact and will not help the OP but my practice has been similar to @bdmh-enterprises  recommends. Signature confirmation on any order which is high risk.

But I have other concerns as well. Perfume should be shipped labeled as hazmat. Important domestically, but also for international shipments via freight forwarder.

[cynicalpink]

Hi, Ken. Thank you again for weighing in. I’m surprised, too, that it ever left the US, since I had the package marked as containing hazardous materials. If the buyer is willing to have it shipped back to me, I’d be happy to refund them, though judging from others’ remarks, it sounds like I might lose the case with ebay regardless.

[cynicalpink]

Hi, duffy. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time and typing out such a detailed reply! I had no idea about forwarding addresses or eIS, but good to know for the future.

I’m a very casual seller (I think I move about ten items a year, if that), but if eIS enrollment is free, I’ll make sure to partake moving forward. 

[cynicalpink]

Thank you, bdmh, for weighing in! I’m reaching out to USPS to see if I can do just that.

The item wasn’t that high of value, but now that I know what an FF address looks like, I’ll be more vigilant. Wish me luck! 

[kensgiftshop]

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@cynicalpink wrote:

Hi, Ken. Thank you again for weighing in. I’m surprised, too, that it ever left the US, since I had the package marked as containing hazardous materials. If the buyer is willing to have it shipped back to me, I’d be happy to refund them, though judging from others’ remarks, it sounds like I might lose the case with ebay regardless.

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Without a delivery scan, if the buyer opens an Item Not Received case, they would win.

When a buyer uses a freight forwarder to have an order shipped to another country, it's supposed to void their MBG.

If you can prove it was reshipped to another country, it might help.

Having the emails from Customs in Qatar, should prove it was reshipped, but with Ebay, you never know.

[marnotom!]

I also have my doubts that the item is sitting in Qatar.  As perfume is deemed hazmat for air transport purposes, it makes no sense to have it shipped to Qatar before being assessed as a shipping risk.

The email the buyer received from the forwarding agent may be referring to the perfume being caught in a customs pre-clearance process on US soil.

It also makes no sense to me that the buyer chose a US forwarding agent based in New York as they would likely have had to pay NY state sales tax on the perfume, but that's neither here nor there.  Just weird.

[cynicalpink]

Hi, tobacco, and thank you for weighing in as well! I did have the package clearly marked as containing hazardous/flammable materials (on the ebay-provided shipping label itself, as well as using some tape labels of my own), which is why I’m surprised it made it out of the country to begin with (I would have figured the FF would have stopped it while it was still in the states). 

Now that I know what an FF address looks like, I’ll be more vigilant about sales. Fortunately I sell stuff so rarely that I don’t know when this would come up again, but it’s good to know.

[cynicalpink]

Hi, marnotom. Not sure if you saw my replies to others, but agreed. As the item’s shipping label and additional tape had it clearly marked as containing flammable/hazardous materials, I’m not sure how it would have left the US.

If I can’t get the USPS to confirm delivery, I’m going to try contacting that forwarding company to verify that it isn’t in the states. If it is, perhaps I can pay to have the item returned to me. If it is in Qatar, I’ll just have to eat the loss.