International Fee

[dealz342]

What a shock today.  All my listings are open to Continental US Only.  I choose not to sell or ship Internationally.  Yet this month I've paid $28 in International Fees.   I can block a bidder who's address is outside the us but, Can Not block one who is registered Outside the US.  Now even though I ship to a US address I owe an International fee of 1.65%  How and why is this my responsibility.  Why are you charging Me the Seller for a Buyer who I can Not stop from bidding on an auction???   

Dealz342

International fee

If your registered address is in the US, we charge an International fee if either:

• The delivery address for the item (entered by the buyer during checkout) is outside the US, or
• The buyer's registered address is outside the US (regardless of the delivery address for the item)

This fee is calculated as 1.65% of the total amount of the sale and is automatically deducted from your sales.

[pburn]

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

I see I made a typo as I did not quote it correctly as I should have said "primary shipping address" and this was in reply to @mam98301 post #25 at 01:04am

Having that block checked along with the international boxes checked that you do not wish to ship to would seem to reduce the amount of shipments  going thru a freight forwarder? 

Just a guess, but it seems like it would be a lot of trouble to change your primary address to a freight forwarders address when you can just add a ship to address at time of purchase without changing your primary address.  Of course anyone intent on ripping you off may get around this.

Maybe I am wrong, it is just a thought.

---

I'm not sure where you're going with this reply.

The policy is:

• Transactions cancelled based solely on a buyer using a freight forwarder violates eBay's policy regarding the misuse of the cancellation feature. Period.
• There is not block available that would prohibit international buyers using a U.S. shipping address. Period.
• There's nothing a seller can check to block shipments to freight forwarders. Period.

Any further what-ifs or guesses or speculations or work-arounds or loopholes or any other strawman fallacies are moot.

[pburn]

Thanks, elizabeth@ebay. I think we're getting there, but, again, you're addressing two separate issues, IMO--only one of which is germane to the OP's topic.

Would it be fair to explain it this way?

ISSUE #1:

If a seller is concerned their buyer is shipping to a freight forwarder, due to their registration address, then it would be against policy to cancel as 'problem with buyers address'.

ISSUE #2:

In order to protect a seller from an INR/SNAD, we do need the buyer to state they're shipping to a freight forwarder for MBG to be voided, as we cannot guarantee that they are indeed using a freight forwarder service based off the address alone. For those sellers who are not experienced with these type of issues, they should reach out to our agents for the next steps. 

[elizabeth@ebay]

---

@pburn wrote:

Thanks, elizabeth@ebay. I think we're getting there, but, again, you're addressing two separate issues, IMO--only one of which is germane to the OP's topic.

Would it be fair to explain it this way?

ISSUE #1:

If a seller is concerned their buyer is shipping to a freight forwarder, due to their registration address, then it would be against policy to cancel as 'problem with buyers address'.

ISSUE #2:

In order to protect a seller from an INR/SNAD, we do need the buyer to state they're shipping to a freight forwarder for MBG to be voided, as we cannot guarantee that they are indeed using a freight forwarder service based off the address alone. For those sellers who are not experienced with these type of issues, they should reach out to our agents for the next steps. 

---

@pburn I wanted to address both topics as they're both being discussed within the thread. Apologies for any confusion this has caused. 

[stephenmorgan]

elizabeth@ebay

What does this statement in the section Exclude shipping locations mean?

"we'll block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location you don't ship to."

A freight forwarders address is not likely to be a "buyers primary shipping address" and is more likely to be a secondary address.  A buyer can change the ship to address at time of purchase.  So if a buyers primary shipping address is in location you don't ship to but the buyer used a secondary address of a freight forwarder without changing their primary address, then why is the sale not canceled automatically by eBay?

The statement "we'll block buyers whose primary shipping address is in a location you don't ship to." gives people a false illusion that they do not have to sell to locations they have blocked and this is why it is a constant topic.

People often only learn their preferences have been circumvented when they see the fees associated with the sale or they are caught up in a scam.

[pburn]

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

A freight forwarders address is not likely to be a "buyers primary shipping address" and is more likely to be a secondary address. 

 And that statement is based on what?

[dbfolks166mt]

   Hi @mam98031 and @pburn. I wanted to address both mentions of cancelling improperly, and our Freight Forwarding policies. I was specifically referencing if a buyer chooses to use a Freight Forwarder, that is their decision however if they admit to it, and we see this, their MBG coverage is lost. We protect our sellers in these instances, but if a case is not opened, and a buyer admits to freight forwarding prior to shipping we recommend reaching out to an agent so they can provide the seller with advice on how to handle the situation going forward. 

       That is all well and good but eBay has NO protection against foreign buyers filing chargebacks with their CC company or bank and therein is the bigger risk. As others mentioned when PayPal was the financial processor sellers had the ability to block foreign currency purchases through PayPal. Under MP no such capability exists. The major issue is the current eBay settings and controls allow you to block countries you do not SHIP to it does not allow you to block countries you do not wish to SELL to although eBay appears to have been able to accomplish that for the Russian Federation at the moment. 

     It is one of those things eBay just never considered or thought through when they converted to MP. As a seller it is my merchandise and my risk. There are counties where the customs officials are so corrupt there is a high rate of pilfering of packages, there are countries that don't have a postal tracking capability and there are those that I will not sell to, ship to or buy from for moral and ethical reasons. 

[stephenmorgan]

---

@pburn wrote:

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

A freight forwarders address is not likely to be a "buyers primary shipping address" and is more likely to be a secondary address. 

 And that statement is based on what?

---

It is based on my selling experience of reviewing documents prior to being paid.  Anyone who does this (review documents) would know the actual registered address is shown in these documents prior to payment being made.  It is only after a payment has been made that the actual ship to address is given.

Anytime I have an International Fee and item is being shipped to a US address I will ask buyer if their address is the US or in the location their account shows.  I ask after I have sent item because I am not trying to get out of a sale.  I want to know encase item is lost after received by Freight Forwarder.

I am not against international sales as I have have many successful sales internationally and will continue to do so.  

[pburn]

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

---

---

It is based on my selling experience of reviewing documents prior to being paid.  Anyone who does this (review documents) would know the actual registered address is shown in these documents prior to payment being made.  It is only after a payment has been made that the actual ship to address is given.

---

@stephenmorgan 

It sounds like you might be confusing the "registration address," the "primary shipping address" and the "other shipping address" and the implication of any of those three addresses.

[dbfolks166mt]

When some sellers were blocking buyers from paying because they were international buyers having their item shipped to a US address, they did so in breach of the Ebay rules.  The sellers that did that prevented buyers from submitting payment to them even though they were ready willing and able to pay and even more importantly they purchased their item within the rules of Ebay.  So I'm glad that option is gone now as some sellers were so out of line as to even file Unpaid item disputes on these buyers and getting a unpaid strike on the buyer's account.  When the fact was the seller prevented the buyer from paying.

Frankly I miss the option. If there are countries that I do not wish to ship to,  a function a seller can set, then in my case I also have no desire to sell to them in the first place. While eBay has added the Russian Federation and the Ukraine to my shipping exclusion list I m not sure this prevents buyers in either of those countries from purchasing items and simply using a FF to get them shipped into Russia or the Ukraine.  EBay has a lot of rules and if it was their merchandise and they controlled the process end to end it would be different. There are items that are perfectly fine to list on eBay and within their "rules" but are against the import restrictions of a lot of countries. I am pretty sure eBay is not going to shoulder the financial responsibility in the case of a chargeback because the item was seized by customs even though it was within eBay's "rules". 

     Not sure where you are getting the information on sellers filing unpaid item disputes but anything is possible. 

No one has to change their "primary address" to match their ship to address.  The two are not necessarily the same.  And with Managed payments that can cause the member all kinds of issues especially if they are a seller too.  I have purchased stuff many times on Ebay and had the items shipped to another address.  All buyers can do this.

I have also done this on eBay as well as several other ecommerce sites. I have multiple shipping addresses on most of my ecommerce accounts and as a buyer use them often. 

"Of course anyone intent on ripping you off may get around this."  You appear to be assuming that if a FF is used, it is a problem transaction which is simply not true at all.  I've shipped many times over the years to **bleep** and have never had any significant issues.  In fact my most problematic buyer is a seasoned one that is also a seller.  

Quite agree on this point. I have only had one issue with an item that went through a FF but it was a nightmare. 

[pburn]

---

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

   Hi @mam98031 and @pburn. I wanted to address both mentions of cancelling improperly, and our Freight Forwarding policies. I was specifically referencing if a buyer chooses to use a Freight Forwarder, that is their decision however if they admit to it, and we see this, their MBG coverage is lost. We protect our sellers in these instances, but if a case is not opened, and a buyer admits to freight forwarding prior to shipping we recommend reaching out to an agent so they can provide the seller with advice on how to handle the situation going forward. 

       That is all well and good but eBay has NO protection against foreign buyers filing chargebacks with their CC company or bank and therein is the bigger risk. As others mentioned when PayPal was the financial processor sellers had the ability to block foreign currency purchases through PayPal. Under MP no such capability exists. The major issue is the current eBay settings and controls allow you to block countries you do not SHIP to it does not allow you to block countries you do not wish to SELL to although eBay appears to have been able to accomplish that for the Russian Federation at the moment. 

     It is one of those things eBay just never considered or thought through when they converted to MP. As a seller it is my merchandise and my risk. There are counties where the customs officials are so corrupt there is a high rate of pilfering of packages, there are countries that don't have a postal tracking capability and there are those that I will not sell to, ship to or buy from for moral and ethical reasons. 

---

eBay doesn't have much protection regarding U.S. buyers who file a chargeback with their payment source, either, IMO. 

For INRs involving a freight forwarder, a seller needs proof only that the item was received at the freight forwarder's address, right? And for SNADs, eBay doesn't protect any seller from anything, frankly, nno matter where the buyer is located. If a seller doesn't refund, eBay does, along with giving the seller a defect.

I'm interested in how you see the difference in eBay protection for chargebacks based on U.S. versus non-U.S. transactions. I feel like I must be missing something.

[stephenmorgan]

---

@pburn wrote:

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

---

---

It is based on my selling experience of reviewing documents prior to being paid.  Anyone who does this (review documents) would know the actual registered address is shown in these documents prior to payment being made.  It is only after a payment has been made that the actual ship to address is given.

---

@stephenmorgan 

It sounds like you might be confusing the "registration address," the "primary shipping address" and the "other shipping address" and the implication of any of those three addresses.

---

I am sure you are correct.  The only thing is when I catch the Sales Record prior to payment being made it shows the actual international address of the buyer.  If using a freight forwarder, then once the buyer pays the address on the shipping label will be for the forwarder.

Anyway I just want to know encase something goes wrong.

[dbfolks166mt]

eBay doesn't have much protection regarding U.S. buyers who file a chargeback with their payment source, either, IMO. 

For INRs involving a freight forwarder, a seller needs proof only that the item was received at the freight forwarder's address, right? And for SNADs, eBay doesn't protect any seller from anything, frankly, nno matter where the buyer is located. If a seller doesn't refund, eBay does, along with giving the seller a defect.

I'm interested in how you see the difference in eBay protection for chargebacks based on U.S. versus non-U.S. transactions. I feel like I must be missing something.

     There  is one major difference however you are correct that there is little difference between domestic and foreign chargebacks when it comes to NAD. 

In the case of an INR eBay's MGB policy regarding deliver to the FF means nothing to the CC company. If the seller cannot prove it was delivered to the buyer then the seller is going to loose. 

[rugerskick]

That is not the likely scenario.

The more likely scenario is its a freight forwarding address.

If they are living in the US, they can change their profile address, or open a second account with the US  address.

[mam98031]

---

@pburn wrote:

---

@stephenmorgan wrote:

A freight forwarders address is not likely to be a "buyers primary shipping address" and is more likely to be a secondary address. 

 And that statement is based on what?

---

@stephenmorgan 

It doesn't even have to be a secondary address.  At the time of payment, the buyer can set their ship to address.  I've done it several times myself.

[mam98031]

---

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

   Hi @mam98031 and @pburn. I wanted to address both mentions of cancelling improperly, and our Freight Forwarding policies. I was specifically referencing if a buyer chooses to use a Freight Forwarder, that is their decision however if they admit to it, and we see this, their MBG coverage is lost. We protect our sellers in these instances, but if a case is not opened, and a buyer admits to freight forwarding prior to shipping we recommend reaching out to an agent so they can provide the seller with advice on how to handle the situation going forward. 

       That is all well and good but eBay has NO protection against foreign buyers filing chargebacks with their CC company or bank and therein is the bigger risk. As others mentioned when PayPal was the financial processor sellers had the ability to block foreign currency purchases through PayPal. Under MP no such capability exists. The major issue is the current eBay settings and controls allow you to block countries you do not SHIP to it does not allow you to block countries you do not wish to SELL to although eBay appears to have been able to accomplish that for the Russian Federation at the moment. 

     It is one of those things eBay just never considered or thought through when they converted to MP. As a seller it is my merchandise and my risk. There are counties where the customs officials are so corrupt there is a high rate of pilfering of packages, there are countries that don't have a postal tracking capability and there are those that I will not sell to, ship to or buy from for moral and ethical reasons. 

---

Not exactly.  The buyer has lost their MBG rights once their FF shipped the item to their country.  So seller's are protected.  If a Chargeback happened, Ebay should step in and protect the seller.  Then it is between Ebay and the CCC..

This does not necessarily have anything to do with "foreign currency".  There was never any need to block that in PayPal as Ebay doesn't allow it on any listing that is posted to the US site.  Buyers are required to submit their payments in US $$$.  They do not have a choice.  So this block in PP only made the seller's feel better, but it wasn't a risk in the first place.

I understand the argument about not wanting to ship to another country.  Just because I can describe the rule or policy doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it, it ONLY means I can describe the rule or policy.

This has nothing to do with MP.  What we have been discussing here has been in place long before MP ever existed.  It is not MP's fault in the least little bit.  This discussion also has nothing to do with customs.  At least not that the seller has to worried about.  The seller's responsibility stops at the FF address.  When the FF ships it to the buyer in their country, the FF is the shipper not the seller on Ebay.