International Fee Charged When I Specifically Selected NOT to Ship Internationally

[bilbo]

I used to sell A LOT back in the 90s then stopped.
Now back to selling some personal items.
Obviously there have been a lot of changes.
I listed an item.
When I listed it, I specifically selected NO INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING
The item sold.
I noticed on the fees charged, there is an "International Fee" because the buyer's registered address is in Japan.
Wait, WHAT?
I went to look and I see and the shipping address is in Portland, OR.
Turns out the buyer is using a 3rd party shipper.
I didn't even know that was a thing, but ok.
But wait, what does that even have to do with me anyway?
I selected I didn't want to ship internationally so eBay shouldn't even be showing my items to international buyers at all!
Turns out, if buyers add a shipping address within a given country (the USA for this instance) then eBay will show those listings to that buyer.
OK, but again, THAT IS BETWEEN eBay AND THE BUYER.
As far as the seller is concerned, I'm doing business in the USA.
SO WHY CHARGE ME FOR A RELATIONSHIP THAT EXISTS BETWEEN EBAY AND THE BUYER?!?!
eBay should charge that fee to the buyer, not to the seller.
And why is there even a fee anyway (but that's besides the point).

Now before someone chimes in to tell me that is eBay's policy, duh.  I get it.
But policies can be wrong.
This is wrong.
eBay is charging ME for a relationship that exists between itself and the buyer.

Now, before someone chimes in and tells me about ways I can EXCLUDE all kinds of regions, I now know that, but I'm not even sure why that is needed at all if I simply select I DON'T WANT TO SHIP INTERNATIONALLY.  It seems like all that feature does is empower eBay  to cook up this scheme in the first place.  If I don't want to do international business (not the least of which reason is because of all the potential risks) then WHY DO I HAVE TO SELECT MULTIPLE OPTIONS TO SUCCEED AT THAT???
KISS = No international shipping

Anything else is, or should be, between eBay and the buyer.
Charge the fee to the buyer at the time of check-out.

If some Blue can explain this to me is some terms other than "that's just our policy" then fine, but otherwise this is just a rant looking for other sellers to chime in and potentially get eBay to listen to reason and change their policy (puts on fantasy dreamland hat).

[pikabo-icu]

Long discussion about this over the last couple days..

If you're interested in reading through it.. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/US-Ebay-Sellers-Charge-for-Buyers-Registered-Bank-Account/m-p/... 

[bilbo]

Thanks for your reply but, other than it being yet another fee charged to the seller for a relationship that exists between eBay and the buyer, I'm not sure I see the relationship.
Perhaps I'm missing something (maybe it's down in the discussion).

My rant is about the buyer's location being in another country, but listing a US shipping address, but then charging ME a fee bases solely on the buyers location.  The messaging doesn't say anything about the buyer's bank account location.

International Fee Charged because the buyer’s registered address is in Japan.

1.65%

[pikabo-icu]

The title may vary a bit but it's the same subject..

Sellers paying extra fees because a buyer that has an item shipped to the US but is registered in an international country. 

Seller sells to US, ships to US but pays a fee based on where buyer is registered or lives- we have no way to know this when we sell nor anyway to opt out of it..

I disagree with this policy 100%

[bilbo]

I agree 1000%
As I stated above, and perhaps this should be the angle we take, this is an arrangement that exists between eBay and the Buyer.  Therefore, if there really needs to be a fee, eBay should charge the other party to that agreement, THE BUYER.
Seller has no part in that agreement.

Seller didn't initiate adding a different shipping address.
Seller didn't provide the 3rd party address.
Seller didn't even build the platform to provide for different shipping address.
In fact, Seller specifically selected Not to ship Internationally.
If eBay wants to empower international buyers to buy from USA sellers who don't want international entanglements, that's fine, but that's between eBay and the Buyer.
LET THE BUYER PAY THE FEE.

[kensgiftshop]

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@bilbo wrote:

In fact, Seller specifically selected Not to ship Internationally.

---

You're not shipping Internationally.

Unless you had foreign payments blocked in your Pay Pal account, they charged us the same fee.

That is one thing that Pay Pal has that I wish MP had, a way to block foreign payments, or make the buyer pay the fee.

[duffy4444]

   This is one of the reasons why on EVERY sale to a US address, I click on the buyer's ID and see if they are, in fact, based in the US. I have uncovered a few attempted international transactions that way, who are using a freight forwarder in the US to eventually ship their item to their home country. I cancel the sale by using "problem with buyer's address" and refund their money. Sometimes I also send them a very polite and honest note explaining why I cancelled their order.

    Because of the MAJOR hassles and problems with international shipping probems that often use freight forwarders, I will not ship to them. Some sellers say they haven't yet had any problems with freight forwarders, but there are a lot of posts here dealing with serious problems with them - one was even posted today. Whether they're legitimate sales or not  - I personally don't want to take the risk. That's how I roll, and the funny thing is it doesn't really hurt my sales, and I sleep better at night knowing I don't have to worry about the possibility of losing my item AND my money on a forced refund because of being scammed, or even just a problem with the middle man freight forwarder making a mistake and the buyer not receiving their item.

   So click on the buyer's user ID, and it will tell you where they are located. Then deal with it as you want.

Cheers, Duffy

[katzrul15]

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@bilbo wrote:

I agree 1000%
As I stated above, and perhaps this should be the angle we take, this is an arrangement that exists between eBay and the Buyer.  Therefore, if there really needs to be a fee, eBay should charge the other party to that agreement, THE BUYER.
Seller has no part in that agreement.

Seller didn't initiate adding a different shipping address.
Seller didn't provide the 3rd party address.
Seller didn't even build the platform to provide for different shipping address.
In fact, Seller specifically selected Not to ship Internationally.
If eBay wants to empower international buyers to buy from USA sellers who don't want international entanglements, that's fine, but that's between eBay and the Buyer.
LET THE BUYER PAY THE FEE.

---

@bilbo 

Could not agree more.  There are a few freight-forwarders that the address is obvious to us, but lately, this is becoming really frequent for our orders and I do not like the additional 1.69% either.  We just sold a high-dollar item over the weekend to Wisconsin - did not realize the buyer is actually o/s the US until e-Bay finalized and said the payment went thru today to be sent to us and I wondered why the fee charged for that order was off.  

I do think as a seller it needs to be more obvious to us that the order we just received is indeed a freight-forwarder.  Especially to certain countries that even if we shipped internationally and we do not, we would never sell to!

[duffy4444]

   I should have explained in my post a few clicks below, that I do ship most of my items internationally. But not certain others because of potential breakage or higher value. And I specifically don't want to have a middle man, so to speak, in the mix and adding another level of potential problems or even unknowingly being a part of a possible scam.

   I practice KISS and keeping on top of all the changes including the current surge in scams, and have been doing very well here on Ebay.

 - Duffy

[katzrul15]

@duffy4444 

Understood what you meant....:)

We ship to Canada.  And recently have added the Aussies back in to the mix.  But that is about all my appetite is at this time and only for certain types of items and items below a certain price point.

If you have the risk tolerance to want to ship outside the US, that is fine.  But if I do not ultimately want my item sent to the Russian Federation, I should have the ability to truly block a buyer registered in the Russian Federation.  

[katzrul15]

If some Blue can explain this to me is some terms other than "that's just our policy" then fine, but otherwise this is just a rant looking for other sellers to chime in and potentially get eBay to listen to reason and change their policy (puts on fantasy dreamland hat).

==============

@bilbo   - You can tag a blue if you like and ask one of them to weigh-in on this.  E-bay doesn't read the boards, so even if everyone who posts here adds their 2-cents to this thread and agrees with you, it won't change anything in e-Bay land, unfortunately.  

[albertabrightalberta]

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@duffy4444 wrote:

  And I specifically don't want to have a middle man, so to speak, in the mix and adding another level of potential problems or even unknowingly being a part of a possible scam.

 - Duffy

---

Am I missing something? If someone uses a freight forwarder, they lose buyer protection. Claims for INR aren't honored as long as tracking shows delivery to the address supplied in the payment. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[duffy4444]

   Greetings, katzrul,

    Interesting you mentioned Russian Federation. That is one of the many countries where I do not ship at all because of postal worker theft more than even scams. I got bitten badly about 10 years ago on an item to St. Petersburg (not Florida - Russia). Most of the world I do not ship to.

    I do ship to Canada, Australia, the UK and all of Western Europe, Japan and ROK. Fortunately, nearly all of my sales are to the US, except freight forwarders when I am able to identify them by clicking on the buyer's user ID and see that the buyer is, in fact, based internationally.

    Nice to see all your posts which, along with many other sellers, are right on and based on wisdom and experience...

Cheers, Duffy

[bilbo]

It seems you might be missing that claims were not the concern in this thread.
I totally understand they are a secondary concern and to that extent, your reply is applicable.

However, the point of this thread is the fee.
Charging ME for an agreement between eBay and the Buyers seems insupportable under common law.
I have no party to or involvement in that agreement.
The Buyer and eBay have all the relief and none of the costs or risks because eBay just punts the costs off on the seller (who was never party to the agreement in the first place).

[katzrul15]

@duffy4444 

Always great to see you on the boards as well.  🙂

Unfortunately my high-dollar item over the weekend is headed to Wisconsin to a freight-forwarder and then to the Russian Federation, that I would never intentionally ship my parcel to.  Not even on "e-bay blind dare day".

Didn't catch it until I saw the fee breakdown.  You have to watch every darn order like a hawk!