eBay

saint*steven · ‎07-30-2016

Attached please find a pop-up warning through which it is impossible to dismiss or click through. It's related to eBay's insane policies pertaining to selling Native American artifacts. Nevermind that the "policy" indicates that the item should be listed in some Native American > Non-Native American Crafts category (which also gets the same blocker page, btw), the item we are listing lays no claims to be Native American made, and we originally tried to list it in a category that doesn't pertain to Native American items either. It's a jewelry item which incorporates an "Indian Head" nickel. I would call some "customer service" rep in India to point this out, but I shudder to contemplate discussing jewelry which we don't even claim to BE Indian to a real Indian.

toooldtorock · ‎07-31-2016

"Many times listing a non-Native-American made item as "Southwestern" can help against the bots."

It is a bit silly to outlaw the use of certain terms. Southwestern is a lie by any other name.

An authenticity seal would be better.

Sort of like a home builder in the United States constructs a house in the Italian style and then

have to say it's Mediterranean inspired.

thingsbysaintsteven · ‎07-31-2016

@toooldtorock wrote:

An authenticity seal would be better.

I like that.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants to protect their property from counterfeiting or other forms of theft.

I'm begrudging a poorly written bot, or a poorly designed page that no doubt IS a glitch if it works with an old version of the listing form.

I really do get it that those two things are intended to protect merchants who have been afforded legal protection. I unwittingly broke the rule seven years ago and that happened in the same year that it was nearly impossible not to draw listing infractions. I studied it pretty hard at the time, since it translated into a dent in my bank account. I don't think I tried to identify the origins of my item, and I certainly didn't call a maker's name since there isn't one. I used a word in the title and probably also in the description that flags a bot. As others have pointed out, that can happen with dinnerware, artwork, postcards, and I might add sportscards. Doesn't hurt to warn a seller when he's doing that, but it's frustrating when it doesn't offer a path either backwards from that point.

For those who are interested in the work-around, I forgot to menton that when the listing gets intercepted at that point, you don't have to go back and do it all over again from scratch. It's saved as a draft and you can wrest into shape from there.

18704d · ‎07-31-2016

"An authenticity seal would be better."

------------

Well,

just for the sake of debate.

If a counterfeiter had no problem totally replicating a Native American tribal design

what would stop them from including a faked "authenticity seal"?

Just like.. how fake COA's haven't hindered counterfeiters of sports memorabilia

Thanks

Lynn

Lynn

You love me for everything you hate me for

.

squinkercat59 · ‎07-31-2016

I had this problem listing a beaded Indian Chief pendant yesterday. The pop-up page came up, and was cut off before it reached the bottom, where the blue boxes were supposed to be, to click to either continue listing or to edit, and I couldn't get any farther. I called Customer Service, and had to talk to three different people, who all told me I had to change my title, I had to change my category, or maybe there was something wrong with my browser.

I couldn't figure out why the bottom of the box was not showing. So, it dawned on me to hit CTRL and the minus sign; it made everything on the screen shrink down a bit and .. voila! ... there was the bottom of the pop-up box, with the blue boxes to click on.

None of the customer service reps thought to suggest this. They all said it was my fault, something I was doing. So if you are getting the pop-up box without the means to click to remove it, try to reduce your screen image.

thingsbysaintsteven · ‎07-31-2016

@squinkercat59 wrote:
I had this problem listing a beaded Indian Chief pendant yesterday. The pop-up page came up, and was cut off before it reached the bottom, where the blue boxes were supposed to be, to click to either continue listing or to edit, and I couldn't get any farther. I called Customer Service, and had to talk to three different people, who all told me I had to change my title, I had to change my category, or maybe there was something wrong with my browser.

I couldn't figure out why the bottom of the box was not showing. So, it dawned on me to hit CTRL and the minus sign; it made everything on the screen shrink down a bit and .. voila! ... there was the bottom of the pop-up box, with the blue boxes to click on.

None of the customer service reps thought to suggest this. They all said it was my fault, something I was doing. So if you are getting the pop-up box without the means to click to remove it, try to reduce your screen image.

Wow, thank you. That's the answer I was looking for.

doubledz-a2z · ‎07-31-2016

I got that pop-up warning recently too and I went ahead and chose a different catagory, listed the item then revised to the more appropriate catagory and it worked fine. You cannot click out of that warning.

squinkercat59 · ‎07-31-2016

Yes, you can. This was EXACTLY the problem I had. It's just that they enlarged the box so the clickable choices don't show. I don't know if it's deliberate or not, to try to get people to change their categories, but the clickable links are there. You just have to make the box smaller so the whole thing shows on your screen.

toooldtorock · ‎08-01-2016

"If a counterfeiter had no problem totally replicating a Native American tribal design what would stop them

from including a faked "authenticity seal"?

Very little stops those with criminal intent and a will to follow through, most honest people would say

reproduction, inspired by or derived from.

Southwestern is just a silly euphemism, more so as not everything American Indian is from the southwest.

Maybe it would be better to copyright the tribal name instead, only allowing actual memebers to use it

for cultural items, Leaving the broader terms Indian, American Indian or Native American in general usage.

gaitinit · ‎09-18-2016

I am having the same problem. After being out of town for a week, I took my listings off of vacation mode and since most of them had ended, I have been trying to relist only to find the same popup with no way to click out of it. This is quite frustrating especially when time is so short. I would call customer service, but don't want to explain the problem to some foreign person in another country whom I wouldn't be able to understand anyway.

allthingsbrooklyn · ‎09-18-2016

Happened to me again yesterday when I used the new form. The old form seems to have disappeared. I took the word indian out of the title, listed it, and then revised it with indian in.

But now I'm going to try to reduce the size of the box as someone suggested. Hopefully I'll be able to do that. I thought i had tried that already, but maybe not.

Thanks for the advice.

grasshopperx · ‎09-18-2016

HA HA HA. Unbelievable politically correct company ebay has become. Too bad they dont know enough not to treat sellers like trash.

7606dennis · ‎09-18-2016

@grasshopperx wrote:
HA HA HA. Unbelievable politically correct company ebay has become. Too bad they dont know enough not to treat sellers like trash.

Actually, I don't believe eBay's policy on listing Native American Arts & Crafts has anything to do with political correctness. Basically it an attempt to comply with federal law which, has been previously mentioned by another poster. The penalties for violating this is severe, even for first time offenders. Better to be forewarned than to learn the law in trying to prepare a legal defense after violating it.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

Anonymous · ‎09-18-2016

As a Cherokee Native American, the hoops Ebay makes us jump through because of this stupid law discusts me, we have no problem with the word Indian, nor do we think it cant be used selling a bracelet, coin or hand crafted item. political correctness has become insanity.

timemachine777 · ‎09-18-2016

The whole process is dysfunctional. I'm 75% Eastern Band Cherokee. In the past I've sold old NA baskets without a hitch, with the exception of some idiot messaging me to pull my item. Anyway, This past winter I kept trying to sell some Old pine needle baskets that I had. My Grandmother use to make these before I was born. I would put them on eBay and the bots would pull them. eBay CS would apologize after I called them and I would have to wait a few days to get the OK to relist them, and the bots would pull them again. After this happened 4 times in a row for the same items, I stopped relisting them. Even with 3 apology emails from eBay, They still made me wait a few days to get approval to relist the 4th time.

The thing that makes me laugh the most is that loads of tribes with 1000's of people in all, would sell their crafts to tourists for over the past 100 plus years. These old pieces never came with COA, and they were rarely signed. Signing your work and COA's are a modern thing. I use to do free hand peyote stitch bead work without a backing when I was a little kid. You can't sign it. It's impossible. In my teens, I would bead my Bic lighters while I watched TV. The lighter was my backing.

timemachine777 · ‎09-18-2016

@18704d wrote:

"I'm not aware of any dollar amounts lost to bootleggers and counterfeiters,..."
---------

http://www.iaca.com/PDF%20Library/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Ken%20Salazar.pdf

"In the American southwest, thousands of retailers display and sell art, crafts and other products that are of foreign origin.
The Attorneys General of Arizona and New Mexico deal with these problems daily because their tourism industries and
local economies depend on transparency and honesty in the marketing and sale of Indian and southwestern-styled goods.
In the arts and crafts sector alone, the estimated revenue loss in 2007 was $14 billion. The U.S. Senate Committee on
Indian Affairs and the Government Accountability Office has estimated that Native Artists and craftsmen have lost billions
in lost revenue from these illicit practices."

Lynn

I grew up dragged to all the Pow Wows as a kid. Even back then dealers would mix non NA items with their stuff. Most of the furs would come from non NA sources. All those rabbit furs come from wholesale catalogs. The sellers were to busy wheeling and dealing and moving from one Pow Wow to next. They didn't have time to make half their inventory. If you know what your looking at, you can quickly tell a hide that's been tanned by hand, and a hide that's been chromed in a tannery.