ITEM DELIVERED THEN RETURNED 3 DAYS LATER TO POST OFFICE REFUSED

[casl-patr]

I sold an item to a customer in Puerto Rico. The initial tracking said that the parcel locker was full, and notice was left. Then the item was picked up the next day at the local post office. 

Three days later, the tracking says "item refused" return to sender. 
The customer says that he never received it. The USPS detail says it was picked up by addressee in the office. (it was not a signature required piece), as it was only a 125.00 item. 

I received the package back. I'm a bit miffed about it because I don't do returns on one off used merchandise, and the auction says so. This process is almost a de facto return. The parts were described well and were exactly as advertised. The customer has a good feed back rating and seems nice enough, but something is strange here. If it was thievery, they wouldn't have returned it to the post office. The tracking does show delivered and it shows later to be refused. The only thing on my end is that the auction showed UPS ground, which is what I use to the lower 48 states. There is no UPS ground to Puerto Rico, so I always do a priority mail flat rate box in those situations. 

I told the customer to open an item not received case, and I thought I would let ebay figure it out, because i'm out my time and shipping cost. I don't want bad feedback, so I don't know if I should just refund the guy less the shipping, or wait for ebay to adjudicate it? If the guy did actually get it and send it back, then he shouldn't get away with doing that in my book, and I don' think I should get nailed for bad feedback either. 

[albertabrightalberta]

Per ebay policy, you aren't obligated to issue a refund. Refusal of delivery negates buyer protection. 

What I would do (because IMO it's the right thing) is to issue a refund for the item price, deducting the shipping cost you incurred and any non-refundable fees you paid.

If the buyer opened an INR case, respond with the tracking number and add a comment that the buyer refused receipt and it was RTS. 

[12345jamesstamps]

The buyer usually will not win if item refused. If it is stated as such...even with tracking. However, there is always that negative feedback. I can't remember but refunding someone in full can feedback be removed by eBay? Help us out here moderators.

[casl-patr]

Let's say I refund the guy the cost of the parts, less, as you say, the expenses and he leaves me negative feedback? Will ebay remove that?

If I wait for ebay's decision, and they find in my favor, is he allowed to leave bad feedback? If ebay finds in my favor, I suppose I can partially refund him after that decision is made? Im not trying to get away with anything, but I really want some leverage to protect my feedback more than anything else. 

[downunder-61]

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@12345jamesstamps wrote:

The buyer usually will not win if item refused. If it is stated as such...even with tracking. However, there is always that negative feedback. I can't remember but refunding someone in full can feedback be removed by eBay? Help us out here moderators.

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If a buyer is refunded in full in answer to a case without eBay having to step in, negative feedback can not be left. 

JFYI - mod's work for Khoros and have no clue as to eBay policy.

[downunder-61]

If a buyer is refunded in full in answer to a case without eBay having to step in, negative feedback can not be left

I have asked on the mentor board for clarification on this ^^^^  as I read this information on that board a few weeks ago

[casl-patr]

The case was initially closed in my favor, and then the buyer lied to a customer service agent and said I promised him a refund. A blatant lie.  Found in his favor even though he (received the item) and also  (refused the item), which are both enough to disqualify him from the money back guarantee. 

I have many times given away merchandise and lost money to maintain good service, but this one was different. 

The buyer has found a way to circumvent returns. Hey, don't want it? Just take it back to the post office refused and then claim you don't know what happened and then call customer service and lie to them. 

[allen1853]

You have learned various lessons like we all have. You can't be nice to sketchy buyers up front. Assume they are trying to scam you or skirt the "rules". Seeing from the get go buyer was a liar I would not have engaged him about refunds. Let him open an INR case then respond with the tracking. Engage with eBay about what to do after that, for whatever it is worth, not much. The problem you/we have is if a buyer manages to get the item back in your hands, eBay ultimately decides you MUST refund. If you do it willingly they contribute their fees. If you don't they keep their fees. Win win for eBay and buyer. Ebay will never let a seller keep the item and the money. Ebay is, however, happy to let buyers keep items and recieve a full refund. Just the way it is. Nothing we can do about it. (And be careful about partial refunds unless you are a Top Rated Seller PLUS, you may lose the partial refund AND ebBay might also refund in full.)

[firesteel_surplus]

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@casl-patr wrote:

The case was initially closed in my favor, and then the buyer lied to a customer service agent and said I promised him a refund. A blatant lie.  Found in his favor even though he (received the item) and also  (refused the item), which are both enough to disqualify him from the money back guarantee. 

I have many times given away merchandise and lost money to maintain good service, but this one was different. 

The buyer has found a way to circumvent returns. Hey, don't want it? Just take it back to the post office refused and then claim you don't know what happened and then call customer service and lie to them. 

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Yeah...one of the downfalls on ebay....

But never sell anything here that you are willing to say goodbye to for free.

I'm sure that statement will bite me some day....

Mike

Firesteel Surplus

[2....1....0....sold!]

1. Refund

2. Block all sales to PR.

Back in the day, I shipped to PR and nothing good came of it. A disastrous political/postal system and one "not as described" scammer after another.

I bought a phone from a PR seller, arrived with hot glue oozing out the sides...seller said I broke it and tried to glue it back together...lol...priceless. He actually paid the shipping to get it back and then RELISTED IT, sold it again, and got another negative for selling a broken phone as "used"...Incredible!

[casl-patr]

The latest is that after a letter I wrote to customer service, they reversed back in my favor. So, it was initially put into my favor, then reversed to him, now it's back to me. So, who knows, it's a rubber ball. 

I never told the customer I would refund him. He received it and then sent it back before he ever contacted me. I don't accept returns on one off used engine parts like he bought. So, now I know he's a liar. He lied to ebay, so there is no doubt in my mind that he deliberately refused the item to get around the no returns caveat then lied to my face and said he never saw the part.  If people would just read what they are buying, it certainly would help. I'm sure he figured out in advance that he bought the wrong part, but that's on him. If a customer would say in advance that they screwed up, I would have offered him a refund with a little re stock and I would have covered my shipping. However, he's lied and wasted a bunch of my time, and that really stinks.

What a tangled webb we weave when we set ourselves to deceive. 

He did get a refund for a little while, but they took it back. I very rarely have problems with anything. I've only had two deals like this in my entire time with ebay and that dates back 22 years. 

[pjcdn2005]

eBay can't take money out of a buyer's account so if  they were refunded and then you were credited, the payment would have been from ebay's funds.

[casl-patr]

Does that mean that he got his money too? IE, both of us?

[casl-patr]

I'm beginning to lean towards eliminating shipments to Puerto Rico. I don't sell enough to them to warrant causing this much trouble for myself. It's a bit of a third world place for sure. 

[downunder-61]

@2....1....0....sold!  Sorry I am totally off topic, but I love your id name 😀