mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@the-hook-and-the-loop wrote:When a buyer starts the process of a chargeback with their financial institution, eBay alerts the seller, puts the funds on hold, and allows the seller to submit a brief response(tracking, confirmation of delivery, jpeg). THEN, eBay is your defense with the CCC. The seller never gets to know who the CCC is, and has to trust that eBay will put up a defense for the seller. Sellers have had to squeeze in 6-10 documents into one JPEG upload because that's all their allowed to upload. How would you expect Johnny Cochran to get O.J. off with only one file allowed? There is a responsibility on eBay's behalf and they do play a role and have control.
Ebay changed how many documents and/or pics could be attached to a Return request or Chargeback a while back. I think there is 4 now. That number may not be accurate. Sellers are not limited to submitting "tracking, confirmation of delivery, jpeg". Sellers are allowed to submit whatever evidence they deem appropriate. And if 4 docs are not enough, then a seller can create a PDF file or Word doc that they can cut and paste whatever info they what to submit.
I know as a buyer when I was having to battle a claim with a seller as I filed and INR on a package that tracking showed received, I submitted emails and pics and anything else I had to prove the seller did not ship to my address nor did the ship the item I ordered. I won that INR. True it was not a Chargeback, but the ability to submit documents is the same.
@shadowdm wrote:Ok let me rephrase!
If it is that easy for someone to do a charge back and no matter what evidence is provided, they win automatically then why sell stuff on eBay!
It is not as clear cut as you say it is, if it was then NO ONE would sell anything because people can do charge backs all of the time.
I am sorry, but I am calling **bleep** on your response, as it makes no sense from a business standpoint.
From that point I only use eBay as a last resort after trying all other options such as Facebook and Amazon. In over 20 years of selling/buying the only place I have ever been robbed was through eBay and (as I said) they had the audacity to charge me $20 because I challenged it. So not only did I get robbed (as I lost both the item and money) I then had to pay an additional $20.
This would be a good question if true. "... no matter what evidence is provided, they win automatically then why sell stuff on eBay!" Chargebacks filed for reasons of an INR or buyer doesn't recognize the charge are the easiest to win. Submitting documentation to prove they received the item or the buyer actually purchased the item and received it is among the easiest documentation to gather and submit.
Now Chargebacks for an INAD are much harder to win. You have to get the documentation together to prove that the buyer is not correct. If you can do that, then you have a chance. If you can't do that, just because you say they are wrong won't help. INAD Chargebacks are very hard to win, but that doesn't mean they can't be won. Some sellers simply don't try because they feel they can't win, others don't have the documentation they need to win and there are likely other reasons too.
You are misrepresenting what I said. The Financial Institution makes the decision and they make the decision without approval by Ebay. No Marketplace has the ability to make a decision on a Chargeback, not even powerhouse Amazon. The Financial Institution is the sole decision maker in this process.
It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. You have that right. That however doesn't change anything I've said.
Now if a Chargeback is filed as an INR and you can prove delivery, yet the CCC still rules for the buyer, then if you followed the rules on Ebay, you should be covered under Ebay Seller protection and Ebay would pay the CCC, not you. Nor would the seller be charged the $20 fee.
OMG, Paypal charged the same fee if we lost a Chargeback. It is not a new charge or one that other sites / money processor don't charge. I have to agree, I don't like it any better than anyone else, but I do understand the rule. You aren't charged the fee because you challenge it, you are charge because you lost it.
Dispute fees
When a buyer files a payment dispute, the seller will be charged a dispute fee if they are found responsible for the disputed amount. eBay will waive the dispute fee if the dispute is eligible for payment dispute seller protections.
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293
@shadowdm wrote:Correct, and that is what happened. I put a JPeg together with screenshots that showed the messages from the buyer and that he had buyers remorse. I explained that it was a VR cable I sold that does not have a serial number and that the seller can easily replace it with a broken one and send that to me which is why the auction had NO RETURNS posted.
The buyer in their complaint did NOT say it was ever broken, their complaint was that I would not take it back.
The process (from eBays side) sucks and the Seller (me) gets completely screwed.
Hence why I no longer sell high ticket items on eBay and I rarely use eBay now (it is only used as a last resort). The Risk is to high and they do NOTHING to protect you.
"I explained that it was a VR cable I sold that does not have a serial number and that the seller can easily replace it with a broken one and send that to me which is why the auction had NO RETURNS posted." How would you or did you prove this?
Your buyer simply wasn't aware of the Ebay rule. Sellers must have return policies that meet or exceed the coverage in the MBG. Sellers with No Return Policies are able to deny a properly filed Buyer's Remorse return request, but the are NOT allowed to deny a Request for Return with an INAD or damaged reason.
While Ebay will not or can not force the seller to take the return, they can and will force you to refund if you do not process the claim. Your buyer simply didn't know that and thought their only option was to file a Chargeback. You run the risk of this happening again due to the type of return policy you have. Your right to have it, you just can't enforce it here on Ebay. Well let me restate that, while you may not have to take a return, you will have to refund on an INAD.
This has nothing to do with the price of your item. It is simply the rules of Ebay.
Just some information that may help you.
The return policies options are as follows.
- No Returns
- 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
- 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
- 14 Day returns in certain categories
With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request. Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping. If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.
On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return. Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.
On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns. If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return. A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping]. Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below. In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.
ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception. Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.
All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!
14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.
For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.
As I said, Ebay's voice in the process with the Financial institute does not change the outcome of what the Financial institute decides. Ebay merely processes the info you provided to the Financial institute. I get it, you want this to be Ebay's fault, so that is what you believe. It however is not different here than it is on any other site that does the Money Processing. I've had Chargebacks on Amazon and lost them without Amazon even letting me provide information at all.
"Facebook and Amazon Warehouse provide an abundance of items are reasonable prices and you don't get screwed over with it." I am very happy for you regarding this as I don't wish issues on anyone. But that does not mean the same thing doesn't happen on those sites. It only means you haven't experience it. And that is a very good thing.
Best of luck in whatever you do.
@mam98031 wrote:
@shadowdm wrote:Their was evidence, the Buyer clearly said in the messages they had buyer remorse that is why eBay found the initial claim in my favor but when the chargeback came from the Credit Card company they simply folded and gave the buyer everything, the item, the money and charged me $20 for contesting it.
Please before you respond look at my Profile, I been using eBay over 20 years, I know how it works.That isn't how a Chargeback works @shadowdm . I tried to explain in an earlier post how this process works, but apparently I failed to be clear enough. Ebay has ZERO control over the outcome of a Chargeback. They didn't "simply fold", they simply had nothing to do with the outcome. The decision on a Chargeback is solely in the hands of the credit card company. I know sellers want to blame Ebay, but that just isn't correct.
Ebay has no more control over Chargebacks than Etsy, Amazon or any other similar site.
It always makes us feel better when we can find someone or something to blame. But it is important to understand the process so you can blame the issue on who actually caused it.
According to ebay policy a seller is protected against a charge back if ebay finds in the sellers favor for a MBG claim...
An eBay Money Back Guarantee case of the same type for the same transaction that was already resolved with:
- eBay determining that the seller met their obligations to the buyer
Yes, that is true too. Thank you for adding this important info.
