eBay

bigdeals.etc · ‎07-09-2018

I have a buyer whom I accepted a return request for. Status shows that they shipped the item, but it hasn't been received yet. The status of the return also showed that the item hadn't arrived yet.

Today I see that the buyer escalated this to a case and is under review. How were they able to do that? I hope ebay won't just side with them and pull money from my account. Or what if since it's Monday, it arrives in the morning and one second later ebay rules in buyer's favor (isn't there supposed to be a grace period for me to refund after it arrives)?

27flamingolane · ‎07-10-2018

That's strange, ebay always sends me the message that I should wait until I receive the item back before issuing a refund. It's always the same message. They do give you a choice to "refund now", but the wording in the message always says :

you should wait until you receive the item back before issuing a refund".

This is just my experience, YMMV

threshold.sales.group · ‎07-10-2018

Yes, the policy that the seller should wait until receiving the return (and inspecting the item) was stated again by eBay personnel on the recent international returns webinar. It's clearly policy. If eBay wants to reimburse the buyer without a verified (tracked) delivered return they can do that from their own funds.

robot-hands · ‎07-10-2018

If I ever got a call from a seller on ebay that would be an INSTANT negative.

sidemouse · ‎07-10-2018

@greg213213 wrote:
Last week I had a buyer open a return request stating that he ordered the wrong size and he already shipped it back without following the proper procedure, but would not answer my question as to where he shipped it to. He opened the return as doesn't fit. I do require a RMA, as this includes a return address label with the address as to where it is to be shipped to.
I called CS just to ask a question and they looked at his and my messages and stated that if he doesn't provide tracking by the end of the day on the 10th of July, I should call back on the 11th.

Then a few minutes later I get a message from eBay that I escalated this. (I didn't I only asked a question.) Now the return request states doesn't match the item description and the buyer would get a full refund including the original shipping.

I am in the same boat as you as this has been since July 2nd and nothing has been returned and no tracking info put into the case by the buyer.

I guess all the buyer has to do is call and ask a question and BAM it gets escalated by some customer service rep automatically, just like when I called to ask a question.

It's all in the code.

You may be in luck if the buyer stepped outside of the returns process by shipping the merchandise back willy-nilly, if the buyer did not use the label provided by ebay then that buyer is no longer covered by the MBG. However, and it gets tricky here...

You are saying you require an RMA and that leads me to believe you never 'accepted' the return, opting instead to 'issue your own label' which also places the buyer outside the MBG and that has been a sore point with me as it leaves the seller able to decline a refund... But if the buyer is well-versed in the returns process they can call ebay and have ebay accept the return for the seller (earning that seller a defect, and another when the buyer has to escalate again for the refund).

Side note: The buyer shouldn't have to escalate a second time just to get the refund, but invariably it always seems to work out that way (hence the term 'uncooperative' seller).

The MBG is such... If a seller never accepts a return and a buyer has to fight, it is very possible ebay will issue that buyer a refund regardless of delivery of return merchandise. Normally a refund hinges on the return of the merchandise specifically showing online proof of delivery, however in the case of uncooperative sellers (not accepting a return is considered uncooperative) ebay's CS may in fact override the application settings by issuing that buyer a refund.

It's all in the code.

In your case it's hard to say but it's even possible the buyer told you he shipped it but instead kept the merchandise, knowing full and well that a refund would be issued if you never accepted the return, makes little sense to ship out merchandise that is just going to come back to the buyer anyhow (after the seller refuses the shipment, which is what happens when an uncooperative seller finds their RMA label wasn't used, the return shipment is refused and returns to the buyer anyway).

The problem here is that...

You as a seller can not force the buyer to use your RMA and you can't force the buyer to use your shipping label. The buyer however can force you to accept the return and hinging on that same set of circumstances can also force a refund from you.

Presently the only possible way for a seller to ensure merchandise return is to accept the return as soon as it is opened (we have ours set to auto-accept), of course doing so prevents the seller from being able to issue an RMA (or at least such is my understanding). The problem being, ebay issues a return label from its own end the INSTANT the return is accepted, this of course prevents the seller from being able to issue an RMA via their own label.

So these are the two courses of action:

1. Accept the return and be left without the ability to issue an RMA.

2. Issue your own label (with or without RMA) but keep in mind this can only be done without accepting the return... Should the buyer balk and call ebay, the seller can be put in a bind for not having accepted the return.

Yes, I realize the policy and return instruction pages do not read clear in these regards.

@missjen831 wrote:
This isn’t how it works. The return tracking does need to show delivered to the seller. The only exception is, when it can’t be delivered due to a bad address or something and the buyer has to call customer service. The OPs buyer should not have been able to escalate the case.

Only IF the seller accepts the return.

Often sellers who issue their own label because of RMA numbers do not actually accept the return.

Failure to accept the return is what causes the trouble.

Of course, should the seller accept the return then the seller can no longer issue an RMA.

goodluckselling · ‎07-10-2018

I know the policy you C/P. I keep up on them fairly well.

We all know it is the luck of the draw when you get a CSR person from eBay. These events happened before this new policy and hopefully this new policy will help sellers in the future.

Good Luck Selling!

goodluckselling · ‎07-10-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Every SNAD return I have ever filed has had to have the tracking actually show delivery before I was refunded. In fact, Ebay states that in the case.

Yes that makes complete sense but that is not how it always works. Let me give you this example.

Buyer uses a return shipping label created from eBay and sends your item back but the item never makes it for whatever reason (gets lost in the mail system somewhere). Should that buyer not get a refund? They have done everything eBay and the buyer asked of them.

These two example I spoke of were exactly like this. Nothing you can do about it. The buyer followed through and for whatever reason the return never made it. My communication with eBay during these returns was that the buyer will still get the refund because they actually did ship the items back with scans along the way.

I actually do not contest this either. I agree when a buyer does there part of the return they should be finished and refunded.

Good Luck Selling!

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

People miss a strong business that goes beyond the 1,000 mile mark and actually wants to talk to them to resolve a problem. People will see the best companies in the world do this, Obama do this etc. but never stop to think "man, maybe I should pick up my phone and communicate directly to my customer by voice?" Yeah, you really really should.

****************************************************************************************************

With all due respect, no, you really, really shouldn't. A strong business that goes above and beyond can reflect that in their handling of the case within the case. Many don't appreciate an unwanted and unsolicited phone call. Only very rare situations justify a call. Ebay prefers that all communication be kept on site, and most buyers prefer this as well. There really is almost nothing that can't be handled through Ebay messages. I've been on Ebay almost since its' inception and have only received maybe three phone calls. I don't mourn the lack and prefer it this way as policy discourages it for very valid reasons.

Buyers just want the problem resolved, which can be done through messages and the case without needless communication. Ebay is also cracking down on off site sales, so the seller who attempts a phone communication could be attempting to conduct off site sales. At the very least, there is no paper trail of the conversation and so the situation could become a he said/she said situation. Ebay needs to be able to read the messages; this is for the protection of both seller and buyer. Lastly, online sales should be just that.

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

@futuretomorrow wrote:
I don't know how this happens to people beyond it's very likely they're doing enough volume and have enough cases that they're too busy to do this but...

If you open a case against me, I'm politely calling you on the phone. Yes, your actual phone. This isn't intimidation and I've never left a single buyer a "nasty message" or anything that could be mistaken as such.

I simply explain there's a misunderstadning due to how eBay's system works and:

a. this is not what they want to use a case for
b. we're happy to resolve any problem and quickly, but it's not happening under eBay's flawed system or resolutions.
c. I've had maybe 1-3 in the last 5 years that insisted I resolve the issue before the case is closed and if I sense they have serious trust issues I do what they ask. Don't fight that type of customer because they'll be quick to assert "this is exactly what I'm talking about" and some of them have been genuinely burnt by horrible sellers on this platform.

97.9% of my cases have been closed this way. No, I'm not kidding or making this up.

1. Do you know how many buyers simply don't know that communicating with a seller after an order in the wrong way inadvertantly opens a case? While some may say they're playing ignorant, they close the case in 2-5 minutes after I've called.

2. People miss a strong business that goes beyond the 1,000 mile mark and actually wants to talk to them to resolve a problem. People will see the best companies in the world do this, Obama do this etc. but never stop to think "man, maybe I should pick up my phone and communicate directly to my customer by voice?" Yeah, you really really should.

3. What about non-responsive buyers? I leave them a VM, wait 6-8 hours and then text them.
4. Read the Art Of War.

5. I have told multiple eBay employees at various levels their system is pretty bad as in they make it too easy to open a case and with all a seller has to do they should not be spending time to educate a customer since most when they understand what they're doing close the case. The problem? I'm the only one it appears doing this so when you hear people say "ebay doesn't care" they're projecting. They mean they don't care enough to call eBay out directly on their nonsense, yet they are the first to one changes here that will benefit them.

How can I claim I'm the only one? Because no company, country or otherwise has ever not given people what they want if they rise up in enough numbers but I look at the pacifists here and it's clear what the problem is. It's them, not eBay. eBay can only get away with what we allow them to get away with.

If you left me a VM, you would not get a response from me. You can't text me. You might get a message stating that you need to communicate through the case, or ebay messaging.

Regarding, eBay can only get away with what we allow them to get away with:

With all due respect, Ebay has the right to make policy as it is their site. While you may not be the only one who doesn't agree with policy, if you do not agree with policy, you have the right to make a business decison to sell where you are comfortable.

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
I know the policy you C/P. I keep up on them fairly well.

We all know it is the luck of the draw when you get a CSR person from eBay. These events happened before this new policy and hopefully this new policy will help sellers in the future.

Good Luck Selling!

There are many definitions of C/P. Please explain yours. Thank you.

I know you keep up on policy. That was why it was surprising that you used two situations to refute a correct post; could you tell us what your other returns experiences were? Were none of them refund upon tracking showing delivery?

Thank you.

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:
I know the policy you C/P. I keep up on them fairly well.

We all know it is the luck of the draw when you get a CSR person from eBay. These events happened before this new policy and hopefully this new policy will help sellers in the future.

Good Luck Selling!
There are many definitions of C/P. Please explain yours. Thank you.

I know you keep up on policy. That was why it was surprising that you used two situations to refute a correct post; could you tell us what your other returns experiences were? Were none of them refund upon tracking showing delivery?

Thank you.

Ahh, copieD and pasteD. Without the d, it made no sense, sorry.

Yes, we do know that it is the luck of the draw on CS reps~and you do as well. That just brings into focus the fact that what the CS rep did in your cases may not have been policy, when one knows what the policy is, and how the situation is usually handled, as several posters stated, delivery before refund.

Thanks, goodluckselling!

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

With all due respect, having delivery occur before refunding is not a new policy; that has been in effect for years.

Sorry ran out of edit time there!

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

@robot-hands wrote:
If I ever got a call from a seller on ebay that would be an INSTANT negative.

I got one recently. Left a message as I didn't answer. Couldn't understand why I said communication should be on Ebay. I'm not sure he wasn't trying to solicit off ebay sales for similiar products. He stated he was "old school", he preferred selling in person and on the phone, and it was just courtesy of communication, not sure why I was uncomfortable. I told him online sales should be just that, and in almost twenty years on Ebay, I have received maybe three phone calls, it is not necessary and is not the norm, and most buyers would agree.

castlemagicmemories · ‎07-10-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Every SNAD return I have ever filed has had to have the tracking actually show delivery before I was refunded. In fact, Ebay states that in the case.
Yes that makes complete sense but that is not how it always works. Let me give you this example.

Buyer uses a return shipping label created from eBay and sends your item back but the item never makes it for whatever reason (gets lost in the mail system somewhere). Should that buyer not get a refund? They have done everything eBay and the buyer asked of them.

These two example I spoke of were exactly like this. Nothing you can do about it. The buyer followed through and for whatever reason the return never made it. My communication with eBay during these returns was that the buyer will still get the refund because they actually did ship the items back with scans along the way.

I actually do not contest this either. I agree when a buyer does there part of the return they should be finished and refunded.

Good Luck Selling!

I'm sorry if my point was not clear there, but I meant you contested that situations require delivery before refund. You didn't clarify thoroughly as you did here. So your post was that once the buyer sends it back, they should be refunded. Not every situation is going to have the item in limbo, so most will require delivery before refund, which is what several posters said in this thread, as your post did not indicate a special situation such as you have now stated.

Thank you!