Getting full final value fee back after buyer returned item without using eBay

[cleaning.the.attic]

My buyer sent a message that her daughter didn't like the item so she wanted to return it. I replied as long as item was in original condition, tags, etc that was fine. Told her to go to her purchase history, find the item, and find the return option in the drop down menu. Let me know if she had any questions.

Item was $99.99, shipping for her was $20.xx, and item has a 10% restocking fee. 

I didn't hear anything back for several days, and wondered if she didn't change her mind again and decide to keep it afterall. 

Then I got home after being gone for 3 days and the package, still unopened/in my original packaging was sitting on my porch. I looked on eBay, but there weren't any returns or messages, nothing about it. Package had a 'Return to Sender' sticker on it, so I looked at tracking for the item and it shows that the package was refused 5 days after it had been delivered to buyer. I'm guessing she didn't want to pay return shipping, so she 'refused' the package after having it for 5 days. Buyers sure are creative...

The next morning she messaged me 3 times: Have you gotten the package?... I see you got the package, when do I get my money?... You've had it 'almost a week', where's my money?... I've only had two returns, and they were through eBay, so I wasn't sure what to do. Did she still need to start a return? That way eBay can take out the 10% restock fee. But she wouldn't need a label since the package was already back... How do I get my FVF back? So I called eBay, and the rep was friendly and understanding, seemed to know what she was talking about. She said if I refunded the buyer I would definitely get my FVF back, just refund her through Paypal and take the 10% off her refund myself for the restock fee. I'd have to call back to get my FVF refunded. She also said I was not even obligated to do a refund since the buyer returned the item without using eBay and refused the package, and if any case was opened eBay would close it in my favor.  

So I refunded the buyer the item price minus the 10% restock fee through Paypal like rep said, and called eBay back. The 2nd rep told me she can only refund FVF on the amount I refunded the buyer, not the original price/shipping cost. So I'd only get $9 instead of $12.10 like the first rep told me. Ebay policy. (I did nothing wrong, nothing wrong with the item, but some shady buyer is going to cost me $3.10? No.) I explained again what the 1st rep told me, and that I shouldn't be charged fees because a buyer didn't start an official eBay return like I messaged her to do. She stated eBay policy to me 4 times, I asked to talk to someone else, she said it didn't matter who I talked to, policy is policy. I told her again the first rep said I'd be fully refunded for my FVF, etc. (If I wasn't getting my full FVF back, I was at least going to gripe about it.) She finally said she'd see if there was anything she could do. I was on hold about 2 minutes, and she got back on and said they were going to do a one-time override or something and give me back the full FVF amount. She sounded really irritated, but I didn't care. It was just $3.10 more, but really it was so much more.  

Sorry to ramble, but in case a buyer gets your item and refuses it 5 days later and it shows up at your door without anything done through eBay and they want their money back ASAP, hopefully this might be helpful to someone. Apparently I should have kept my extra $3.10+/- by refunding the buyer that much less. Or something like that. Otherwise you have to tango with customer service. 

If a buyer returns an item outside of the eBay system, can a return still be started WITHOUT having to print a return label? How would that work? Would it? Any easier way to deal with this if it unfortunately happens again?

[lacemaker3]

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@cleaning.the.attic wrote:
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So I refunded the buyer the item price minus the 10% restock fee through Paypal ...

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OK, if you have already refunded the buyer, then now you just need to cancel the transaction in eBay.

You refunded by clicking the refund link from the payment, right? and changed the refund amount?

Find the transaction in the Resolution Center, and cancel it. eBay will be able to see that you have already refunded in PayPal (from the payment transaction) and they won't refund the buyer again. If you refunded in a separate transaction, then you may need to call eBay and give them the transaction ID number for the refund, but not if you refunded properly from the payment transaction.

Once the transaction has been canceled, the buyer will not be able to open any other case for the transaction, so you need to cancel it as soon as possible. Otherwise, the buyer could possibly file an Item Not Received case (since the tracking number shows delivery back to you, not to the buyer).

eBay doesn't give a fee credit for partial refunds, and that would not be any different if the refund had been done through eBay instead of through PayPal.

It sounds like there were misunderstandings in both of your calls with eBay CS, because eBay doesn't give fee credits for partial refunds. To get a fee credit you would have had to refund the complete payment, including shipping. Even if the return/refund had gone through eBay instead of PayPal, you can't get a fee credit if you charge a restocking fee, or don't return the original shipping. That's the published policy, and that's what eBay will enforce.

[sg51]

 I'm guessing she didn't want to pay return shipping, so she 'refused' the package after having it for 5 days. Buyers sure are creative...

That's perfectly legal.  Return postage is included in most USPS rates.

You will need her to agree to the cancel to get your fees back.  Getting the fees back is automatic if she were to have filed a return case.

[lacemaker3]

The buyer doesn't have to agree to the cancelation. They don't have an option to reject it (or even agree, for that matter), the only options are either "I have been refunded" or "I didn't pay". If the buyer doesn't choose either one, then it closes automatically in the sellers favor as long as eBay can see that the refund has been completed if it was paid through PayPal. It takes about 10 days.

In my experience, the only way a cancelation will not go through is if the PayPal refund doesn't clear. I had a seller cancel and refund with an e-check once. The e-check bounced (twice) and then eBay canceled the cancelation. I had to do an Item Not Received at that point, to get the refund from eBay.

However, OP only gave a partial refund, so they don't get a fee credit. The restocking fee should cover it.

[buyselljack2016]

Seems like the 10% restocking fee would have covered the $3.10, rather than spending $20 worth of your time with CS to get them to override policy.

[*eponymous*]

There is nothing "creative" about the buyer returning an opened package as "refused".  Further, you authorized the return and the buyer was entitled to a refund, which has nothing to do with eBay's rule about a buyer "refusing" a package.  Each of you and the buyer are entitled to either the item or the money.

Did she still need to start a return? That way eBay can take out the 10% restock fee.

No, you misunderstand the return process.  eBay doesn't deduct anything from a return, and the only way you can get a credit on fvf when you refund in full is to cancel and refund through eBay.

Your "restocking fee" is a wash with the fvf credit you do not get on a partial refund.  eBay has never and does not now refund fvf on partial refunds.

[cleaning.the.attic]

*eponymous* I think you misread some things. First, the package was not open. As stated, the buyer never opened my package. That's how they were able to refuse it through USPS.  They avoided paying return shipping with eBay, and let USPS do it for them for free. I still call that "creative". ToMAYto, toMAHto. 

And yes, the buyer is entitled to a refund--minus the restocking fee, and minus their original shipping--because they just changed their mind. That's on them, right? (If I had made a mistake in my listing, missed a flaw, etc. I would refund them fully, shipping and all. And pay for the return shipping. Because that's the proper thing to do, and eBay's rule.)

I've never done it, but if I bought an item, then returned it because I just changed my mind, and the seller had a 10% restocking fee in their return policy, I'd only expect to get 90% of my money back. Am I mistaken on that?

Never say never--I was refunded the full amount of my final value fee. I did everything I should have as the seller, so why should I lose money because a buyer didn't do their part? 

[cleaning.the.attic]

Since the buyer didn't start the return process through eBay as requested, I had to call a CS rep anyway to get any of my FVF back. It wasn't automatically done because the buyer circumnavigated the eBay way. So why not try to get all $12.10 of it back? Maybe that's peanuts to you, but not me. 

[cleaning.the.attic]

Tracking shows it went to them before coming back to me. And her message said she wanted to return it because her daughter didn't like it. I refunded her through Paypal directly from her transaction. Do I still need to cancel it? The CS reps never mentioned that. (It's clear what went on, if they looked at tracking/messages anyway.) CS rep did say the buyer forfeited their buyer protection by NOT returning through eBay's return setup so not to worry if the buyer tried to open a case or anything.

Thanks for your help. 

[cleaning.the.attic]

As stated, the package was not opened. It was never opened by her, that's the only reason she was able to refuse it and have USPS return it back to me, no charge to her. I still call that "creative", but toMAYto, toMAHto... And yes, buyer is entitled to a refund--minus the restocking fee and minus original shipping, right? The buyer just changed their mind. Now if I'd made a mistake in my listing or missed a flaw, etc. I would have refunded the whole amount, plus paid for return shipping, because that's the proper thing to do, and eBay policy. As far as the restocking fee, if I bought something and then returned it just because I changed my mind, and the seller had a 10% r/s fee in their return policy, I'd only expect to get 90% of my money back. Isn't that how that works? Finally, never say never--I got my full FVF amount back. It's nice to not lose money just because a buyer had buyer's remorse.

[lacemaker3]

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@cleaning.the.attic@  wrote:

... Do I still need to cancel it? The CS reps never mentioned that...

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Yes, you still need to cancel it. Or you are in danger of losing an Item Not Received case, as I said.

Either you misunderstood the CS reps, or they were mistaken. It doesn't matter which, because eBay only follows their published policies, not members's own interpretations, or what they think the CS reps told them. Most of the time, I'm certain, it is what the member wanted to hear, not what the CS rep really said, anyway.

[cleaning.the.attic]

Okay, just one more question, hopefully.. 🙂 When I try to cancel it, it shows this:
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"Subtotal : $99.99
Original shipping : $20.95
Refund : -$89.99
Order total : $30.95
By submitting the refund you are authorizing eBay to instruct PayPal to refund from your PayPal account"
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So it's going to refund more money to the buyer, which is not what needs to happen.

[cleaning.the.attic]

I've tried replying to this 3 times, I don't know where it keeps going. Anyway, the package was not opened. She never opened it. She wouldn't have been able to refuse package through USPS if she had opened it. USPS returned/shipped it back for her, with no extra cost to her. And yes, she was entitled to a return, minus the restock fee and minus original shipping, because she changed her mind about buying it. If I'd made a mistake or missed a flaw, etc. I'd return entire amount, plus pay for return shipping, since that's the proper thing to do, and eBay policy. But she changed her mind, so that's on her, right?

[*eponymous*]

Yes, of course I meant to type unopened.

[missjen831]

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@cleaning.the.attic wrote:
Okay, just one more question, hopefully.. 🙂 When I try to cancel it, it shows this:
------------------------------------
"Subtotal : $99.99
Original shipping : $20.95
Refund : -$89.99
Order total : $30.95
By submitting the refund you are authorizing eBay to instruct PayPal to refund from your PayPal account"
--------------------------
So it's going to refund more money to the buyer, which is not what needs to happen.

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If you didn't refund in full you don't get the FVF refunded. If you cancel the transaction the rest of the buyers payment will be refunded to her and you'll get the FVF back.