Fraudulent purchases from hacked accounts

[lightlily_arts]

Recently, I have had several problems with Paypal chargebacks because the buyers reported that these purchases were unauthorized.  The first two came weeks after the original purchase took place, and were very low value items.  I never knew any of the specifics but uploaded the delivery confirmation to demonstrate that I had mailed the items to the confirmed address, and the tracking information that proved the items were delivered.

Yesterday was different.  I posted two portable hard drives for sale.  The first one sold at 11:08 a.m. and within an hour Paypal notified me that the purchase was not authorized by the account holder.   The name of the real account holder was not the name on the shipping address in New Castle Delaware.  Fortunately, I hadn't done anything because the purchase came after my mailman had already delivered my mail for the day.  I called both Paypal and Ebay, and canceled the purchase sothat I could end any dispute on my end.  Meanwhile the second one sold to a buyer in Texas so I had to relist the first one.  I left for awhile and when I returned home later that night the second one had sold again.  I waited until today to print out the label but the account holder from the first purchase contacted me for help and explained that her Ebay account had been hacked.   I had refunded her money so I don'y know why she was stillaskijmng me for a refund.  I advised her to contact Paypal and Ebay and also told her to file a police report.  I looked more closely at the third purchase and noted that it was from a brand new ebay account with zero feedback.  Then I noticed that the new buyer's address was also in New Castle, Delaware.    I called Paypal to verify the account information and address because it was not residential.  I  did a web search and found that these packages were being sent to Korean Shipping service so they could be forwarded out of the country.  I also found comments from sellers reporting that scammers were using these shipping services to purchase from US sellers and then later claim their items not received.

Although in these scenarios the seller would win by offering proof of delivery confirmation, your money is tied up for weeks pending investigation and review.  Paypal tells you that you have seller protection against thse claims if you have proof of delivery.   However, the problem with these claims is that any monies associated with the purchase in Paypal are frozen until the claims are resolved which can be weeks.   It also depends on where the buyer initiated the claim.   If they go to their credit card company the process is lengthier as paypal fights off the chargeback.  So when you are mailing packages which are not going to a residential address try googling it to find out where it's really going.   Miami and some surrounding cities is another  location where many Foreign buyers use a shipping service.  I had made it harder for foreigjn buyers to purchase my items because I also elected not to accept payments from Non US Paypal accounts when there was a rate increase for accepting Non US funds. 

[*eponymous*]

Your post is a little hard to read with so many words - and so few paragraph breaks.

The name of the real account holder was not the name on the shipping address in New Castle Delaware.

It doesn't need to be the same, and very often it is not the same!  All you need to know is where to ship, which is the address on the PayPal payment.

tracking information that proved the items were delivered.

Proof of delivery isn't needed for a UA case.

canceled the purchase sothat I could end any dispute on my end.

Unless you cancelled for problem with buyer's address or at buyer's request, you could end up with a defect. Cancelling does not end a dispute.

I also found comments from sellers reporting that scammers were using these shipping services to purchase from US sellers and then later claim their items not received.

You must have been reading comments from uninformed posters if that is what you read.  Reshipments are not coverd by eBay, but they are covered by PayPal.  Your responsibility as a seller is to get the item to the addess on the PayPal payment, which is a USA address.

If they go to their credit card company the process is lengthier as paypal fights off the chargeback.

No, they do not, nor is that part of the chargeback process.  Sellers like to think there is, but there is not.  The card issuer makes the unilateral decision, and PayPal's only involvement is forwarding the info the seller provides (shipping info) to the card issuer.

IMO eBay should start handing out defects to sellers who block payments.  If eBay wanted you to block payments, they would give you that block on eBay...which they absolutely do not!

[sharingtheland]

IMO eBay should start handing out defects to sellers who block payments. 

Seriously?   You're just saying that to get a rise, aren't you.

Not only do I block foreign payments, I block foreign buyers.  Should I get double defected for that?

My items; my money; at this point in time on this venue, still my decision.

[d-k_treasures]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

IMO eBay should start handing out defects to sellers who block payments.  If eBay wanted you to block payments, they would give you that block on eBay...which they absolutely do not!

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Sure they do - since PP is the only form of payment a seller is allowed forced to accept unless you have your own merchant account.

Given that they don't have their own payment processor except for their sold-off linked for 5 year paypal, that block can be considered active for ebay.

Now if some overseas buyer feels like sending me cash, then I will sell to them(except for the below). Otherwise ..... BLOCKED. I'm not about to send antique toys to china or india so that they can reproduce them. Ebay gives them enough ideas on what to counterfeit reproduce. And if they want more of us to sell overseas, well, then they can charge the buyer the extra 1% that a seller has to eat - they can consider that a 'buyers premium' - and they can also consider anything that made it to customs in a country as 'delivered'. 

[lightlily_arts]

I started this discussion initially to let people know about the fraudulent transactions I had a few days ago. I had  I can see how you arrived at your assumptions, and in pointing out some concerns.   However, there is a lengthier back story.   I was notified by Paypal that the buyers who purchased my hard drives both of which were to be shipped to New Castle, Delawares were fraudulent transactions.  The first buyer hacked another Ebay member’s account to make the purchase.   However,  the actual account holder received an email confirming her payment & immediately contacted Paypal to dispute the transaction which triggered an email to me.   Paypal advised me to immediately cancel the transaction to  resolve the dispute since I hadn't mailed it.   Ebay was contacted as well to assure and confirm that I wouldn't get a defect for canceling the sale.  When the first attempt failed the buyer created a new Ebay account & used a stolen credit card to try and get my hard drive again.  Cheeky fellow, but maybe not too bright as I noticed the address was again to the Korean shipping service.  

Paypal & Ebay advised me both times to cancel the transactions & refund the money to end my involvement  in these fraudulent transactions.  Canceling the transaction and refunding the money did in fact end my involvement in the dispute.  As I had not mailed the item I was able to immediately  relist it again.  You would have to be an idiot to proceed with mailing an item when you suspect or have been you've been informed that the sale was fraudulent.  Paypal CS alluded to a common factor for both hard drive purchases, but couldn’t tell me anything specific due to privacy of all transactions.  The only reason I knew more about what actually transpired was contact with the first victim he hacked.

As for charge backs I am well aware that in order to protect myself that I only need to submit the proof  of delivery confirmation to Paypal, and as in any transaction you need to ship to the confirmed address.   Charge back fees can be substantial depending on the price of the item.   I have discussed the charge back process with Paypal and it is quicker if the claim is filed with them as opposed to the credit card company.    I have worked with buyers that wanted an item sent to someone other than their self and all they needed to do was go in and change the address prior to making the purchase.

Quite some time back I elected to only sell domestically to the Continental US, and depending on final package weight to Alaska, Hawaii, and US Protectorates.  Occasionally,  I still sell across borders, and generally my exceptions are to Canada.    When people really want something you have they will contact you. The best examples are people who contact you to see if they can negotiate a lower price even though you do not have a best offer option. I  employ the usual  standard exclusions with buyer’s requirements to manage the incidence of problem transactions.   Since the majority of my sales are BIN using Paypal to block bidders with Non US Payment Currencies avoids having to deal with potential international returns because as we all know the seller pays the shipping expense for buyers who claim SNAD.  It doesn’t matter how careful you are because some people will never be happy. There are too many buyers that don’t read a listing in it’s entirety, and I’ve had my share of liar buyers that misuse the Ebay Buyer Protection to get free return shipping.  

International shipping charges are a good chunk of change and a bitter pill to swallow for a return.  So no I don’t fancy high risk high expense international returns.

I have sold and shipped very heavy items such as auto tires, rims, snowboards, and even a Kayak.  Every seller has the prerogative of determining their scope of  sales promotion, and how they choose to maximize their profitability  while minimizing financial  risk. When alternative resources are limited, you tend to be more conservative.    

Back to the New Castle, Delaware issue.  Before commenting trying researching the Freight Forwarding Companies that are providing for services for multiple countries.  There were 57 companies listed in the area located in New Castle Delaware. There are hundreds of complaints that go back several years. Related to the businesses on McCullogh Drive. There are scores of complaints at badbuyers.org

There is an article at The Balance "The Top Ten Risks Ebay Sellers Face"  I think you'll find it accurate in describing problems that Ebay sellers encounter.  The Balance is a web site that focuses on issues for Ebay Sellers.  It is ludicrous  and narrow minded for anyone to suggest that a seller should be sanctioned by Ebay with defects because they choose not to sell to international buyers.  In the reverse how many times are buyers chastised on these boards because they purchased items from Asia due to frequency of problems with those sales.    How many newbie sellers come here to report the loss of their expensive cell phones to international scammers?   I am not minimizing that these same problems aren't occurring here as well or that the outcome is any better.  I just don't want to  deal with a possible return on very high shipping charges for  international sales.

[yuzuha]

"However, the problem with these claims is that any monies associated with the purchase in Paypal are frozen until the claims are resolved which can be weeks."

Where are you getting that?  When I had an unauthorized chargeback claim, they released the money back to me in about 48 hours after I uploaded the tracking information.

[lightlily_arts]

 I'm  glad your case resolved so quickly but that hasn't been my experience.  It would have made me a lot happier if my cases had resolved that quickly. The most recent case occurred on May 3rd when I was notified by Paypal that they were putting a hold on my funds due to an unauthorized purchase, and I uploaded my tracking documents that same day.  They didn’t begin to review the case until May 9th.  The release of my funds and the case wasn’t resolved until May 16th.  Fortunately this was just for a bottle of herbal supplements. The case before that was for an $8.00 bottle of eyedrops and that one took almost three weeks.  I spoke to Paypal and they reported that both of those claims originated with the account holders credit card company.  Luckily, I always keep some money in Paypal so it wasn’t an issue for me.  However, there are some real horror stories where the chargebacks are substantial, and if you don’t have the money in your account Paypal will go to your backup funding source to cover the hold.  These has created  major hardships for some sellers because the money taken from their checking account caused overdrafts.  Then they get hit with overdraft fees compounding the problem.  When I spoke to Paypal they did tell me that it could take up to 21 days. 

[lightlily_arts]

I couldn't begin to count the number of items I got from Asia  over the past 15 years that were a problem of one kind or another.  It's an upside down transaction for the Chinese because their  to us is subsidized, but not on a return trip.  When I open a claim  I make sure it's on Ebay and not Paypal.  If you open a claim on Paypal you pay the return shipping. I stand my ground and insist on  them sending me a return shipping label and refuse to pay for it on the promise that I would be reimbursed.  As an example, I bought a sweater for $18.00 and it would cost me $36.00 to send it back because you have to show tracking to get refunded.  They offered me a discount which I refused because it was 5 inches too short, as the sweater looked like it was made for a child and useless. The most economical solution was to simply give me back my money and the sweater went to the  women's shelter.

[tunicaslot]

I've been on the end of a couple of chargebacks - but after a couple of days - I've called Paypal and had them closed in my favor and money released.

As far as the money on hold and Paypal going into the backup accts to collect the funds - I find it foolish that people do not leave enough money in their paypal accts in case of a possible return or chargeback. Others come here complaining of low sales and how they can't pay their ebay bill - we can see they've made sales during the month - but they transfer the money made into other accts and hope that enough new sales will come through to then cover their bill.

I always leave a cushion in Paypal in case of something happening.

[lightlily_arts]

I do too, but it can be tough when that chargeback comes weeks or months later, and it's for a high value item.  I generally leave the money for a minimum of 30 days.  However,  when I was reading about the complaints from the New Castle Delaware Freight Forwarding scams the sellers were talking about claims being filed after 90 days.  The scariest ones are the scammers  trying to buy merchandise with stolen  credit cards.  Some of the attempted fraudulent claims were in the thousands.   I checked the addresses I had and saw that there were multiple Freight forwarding companies on the same street, but the 70 McCullough Dr.  address was the one used most frequently.   My other fraud claim was using a computer I got a message from Ebay with a link to edit my shipping preferences. Supposively you are able to exclude a state, but I don't see that option.  What we need is to be able to exclude that city.

[odditiesandantiquities1]

An excellent point, one which I started doing as soon as I came back selling. I also try to pay off my eBay bill in advance each time I sell something.  If something should come back...well it returns as a credit to me.

I also leave cushion money in PayPal and one of my accounts specifically for Paypal. It is a great relief to know I'm not getting hit. 

[*eponymous*]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

IMO eBay should start handing out defects to sellers who block payments. 

Seriously?   You're just saying that to get a rise, aren't you.

Not only do I block foreign payments, I block foreign buyers.  Should I get double defected for that?

My items; my money; at this point in time on this venue, still my decision.

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Talk about trying to get a rise.

No, I am not kidding!   Sellers WHO BLOCK PAYMENTS AFTER A LISTING HAS ENDED TO PREVENT A BUYER FROM PAYING SHOULD BE BANNED.

And...no, you cannot block "foreign buyers" - whatever "foreign" is to you.

[lightlily_arts]

Amazing how the words here get picked apart so we can get caught up over semantics.  I think most people  are familiar with the terms  domestic and foreign to differentiate between what we see as national and  foreign being everywhere else.  But yes we can block foreigners.  

First stop is your site preferences to set your  preferences to block bidders  that have a primary shipping address in a location I don't ship to,  and block payments from bidders  who do not have have a paypal account in US currency.   The options are also there on each listing page so you decide where you want to sell on each and every listing .  First indicate that you will not do any international shipping,  then go to exclusions  and exclude all other countries from bidding on your listings.   There are those who will try and circumvent the blocks too.  

However,  I still only ship to domestic locations and only accept US currency.   There are people that buy for foreign nationals and ship  items to them.  That's fine with me and I generally know when I get this kind of buyer because they tell you not to put any invoice in the package.   I'm not sure it's helpful, but I do pack these with extra layers assuming they aren't repacking.  Nothing is written in stone and  there will be those times when someone requests that I make an exception, but I want to decide what I will ship and where I will ship. 

Thus far it has been Canada, Japan, United Kingdom, and Germany.   It's usually  a collectible antique  and if they agree  to what it will cost no problem, but I won't ship without tracking, and won't use Ebay's GPS program either.   The country has to be one that my third party insurance carrier will cover.  I limit  shipping to  lightweight  USPS packages for Alaska, Hawaii, and US Protectorates because there is no ground transporation.  I use Fedex for heavier packages.  

Most people shop by total cost, and people here gripe about what it costs to ship across country.    I work full time at a very intense job that doesn't have set work hours so Ebay is secondary for me, and  I have to limit how much time I can spend on something.

[trevoryahoo]

I had two purchases in the last couple of months that were frauds.  They were both a little different. but, both ended with a charge back because the charge was unauthorized.  I learned a few things to look for but i wish people here, would also list what they have learned like you did.

they paid full price and did not use the make an offer.

they opened the ebay account the same day.

Most important: ask me to send to a different address because it was a gift.

If they don't ASK to send to another address - the shipping address looks

funny - not  quite right - I needed to ask for clarification.

I hope this helps. I wish ebay or / and pay pal would help a little more.

It should be part of the report buyer drop down list it is happening so much.

[trevoryahoo]

thank you for taking the time to try and help other sellers. It actually took me
a long time to find this place where people were talking about this scam with hacked accounts a charge backs.