Foreign scammer getting through the holes in ebays seller protections

[gchiker22]

Foreign scammer buying through Freight Forwarding Service

Warning Sellers!  Even if you have set your preferences to not sell to buyers outside the U.S. they can still bid on your items using a freight forwarding service.  I just sold an expensive pair of earphones to someone with an odd address in Sarasota, Fl.  It was someone using a foreign shipping service.  The address was 4283 Express Ln Ste 2698-648 Sarasota, FL 34249.  The USPS delivers to this foreign shipping service who then ships the item out to their customers in foreign countries.  My buyer claimed they did not get the item and the USPS had a long delay in showing that the item was delivered.  My buyer left me negative feedback until I refunded his money, then a day later, USPS showed the item was delivered.    My buyer promised to send the item back if he wound up getting it but now of course he is not responding to my messages or invoices for payment.  Ebay says there's nothing they can do to help me because I refunded the buyers money without being forced to by them.  The only thing we can do to avoid these foreign scammers is to cancel the sale, don't ship the item if you see an odd address.  I googled the address and saw it came back to a foreign shipping service.  

I think in my case Ebay could simply read the messages I received from this buyer and see that he was trying to scam me, and then insist that he either return the item or re-pay for it.  It was clear he was scamming me because he was asking for a refund and threatening me with negative feedback way before he even should have received the item.  

[yuzuha]

The address being a reshipping service has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is that the item was delayed in delivery.  If the tracking does not show delivery, a buyer will win an INR case every time whether they are a domestic buyer or a foreign buyer using a reshipping service.

[emerald40 · Accepted solution]

Warning Sellers!  Even if you have set your preferences to not sell to buyers outside the U.S. they can still bid on your items using a freight forwarding service.

________________________________________________

If you do not want to deal with this, in paypal block non US currency and foreigh paypal accounts.

[*eponymous*]

You lack understanding of how freight forwarding works in connection with eBay.  A seller ONLY needs online tracking showing delivery to the address on the PayPal payment in the USA!  The MBG does not give buyer protection for items sent by freight forwarder (but PayPal does cover them).

Using a freight forwarder provides NO MORE holes than any other sale; in fact, you have less exposure!

Now, tell us about this "ebay seller protections" you speak about...

[gchiker22]

Thank you!  I was able to get into my seller profile in paypal and block all non-US payments.  This should help me block the foreign scammers  using freight forwarders.   The only advise the ebay phone support people gave me was to cancel the sale if I saw a freight forwarder's shipping address.

I think these scammers know that there is often a delay in the USPS showing the delivery status and they are using that delay to threaten ebay sellers with negative feedback in order to get a refund...and keep the item.

[fashunu4eeuh]

This member’s original post is a cautionary tale for sellers on what NOT to do.

OP, you were in no way obligated to give a refund for a reshipped item. Once an item is reshipped, ebay’s Money Back Guarantee is voided. You let this buyer bully you and you fell for it, unfortunately not knowing the policies Ebay has in place to protect you. There may not be many, but there are a few every seller needs to know to operate successfully here. The MBG has limits, the link is below.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

Freight forwarding is an accepted practice and is not a nefarious venture that sellers need to be warned about. The problem here is not the reshipping service.

Buyers are not allowed to use the threat of bad Feedback to get refunds, discounts, better terms or anything else. It is a serious policy violation called Feedback Extortion, policy details below.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

OP, i am very sorry this pushy demanding buyer was able to manipulate you into giving him both a voluntary refund and a free item. Knowing some important policies would have protected you here if you had known them. Since you did not know, you were vulnerable and unprepared. There is very little eBay can do to protect sellers from themselves. 

[missjen831]

---

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

This member’s original post is a cautionary tale for sellers on what NOT to do.

OP, you were in no way obligated to give a refund for a reshipped item. Once an item is reshipped, ebay’s Money Back Guarantee is voided. You let this buyer bully you and you fell for it, unfortunately not knowing the policies Ebay has in place to protect you. There may not be many, but there are a few every seller needs to know to operate successfully here. The MBG has limits, the link is below.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

Freight forwarding is an accepted practice and is not a nefarious venture that sellers need to be warned about. The problem here is not the reshipping service.

Buyers are not allowed to use the threat of bad Feedback to get refunds, discounts, better terms or anything else. It is a serious policy violation called Feedback Extortion, policy details below.

https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html

OP, i am very sorry this pushy demanding buyer was able to manipulate you into giving him both a voluntary refund and a free item. Knowing some important policies would have protected you here if you had known them. Since you did not know, you were vulnerable and unprepared. There is very little eBay can do to protect sellers from themselves. 

---

Actually no. The buyer did NOT void the MBG. The item had NOT been delivered to the forwarding service when the buyer filed an INR. And the OP admits there was a long delay with USPS. So at the time the INT was filed he was obligated to refund the buyer. What the OP failed to do was call and attempt to get the INR placed on hold. This isn’t a cautionary tale about buyers using forwarding services, the destination here didn’t matter. The item had not been delivered and was overdue when the buyer filed the INR.

[yuzuha]

---

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

This member’s original post is a cautionary tale for sellers on what NOT to do.

OP, you were in no way obligated to give a refund for a reshipped item. Once an item is reshipped, ebay’s Money Back Guarantee is voided.

---

The way I'm reading it, the delay didn't have any relation to the reshipping-- it was a USPS delay to the reshipper's US address, which is why I said that reshipping had nothing to do with it and that the same thing would have happened had it been a domestic buyer.

[gchiker22]

What ebay could do to protect sellers "from themselves" is have better phone support.  I called ebay BEFORE I refunded the buyer and I was told by ebay that I should refund if the item was not received by 12/20.  The rep told me it would be better to refund than risk a case being decided against me and I would then also have negative feedback.  Ebay can easily go into my messages and see that this seller was trying to scam me since he was asking me for a refund and threatening me through ebay messages.  They could also check their phone records and see that I called them and asked them what I should do BEFORE I refunded the buyer.    I was just doing what ebay recommended I do.

[gchiker22]

One more clarification:  The delay was not in the shipping but just in the USPS updating their tracking system.  Once they did update the tracking, it showed that the item had been delivered to the Sarasota address days before the buyer even started threatening me with negative feedback.  The buyer opened a case against me after the item had been delivered to the freight forwarder.   

[fashunu4eeuh]

OP, many apologies, it is not helpful when posters get it wrong! Thank you, @missjen831 for catching my mistake. I thought the package had been already forwarded.

To clarify, as i said in my post, the reshipping service is not a culprit here. They provide an accepted practice. The cautionary tale remark could be too vague, i meant to say it’s ok to use reshippers, but sellers should know the policies: the MBG relieves sellers from the responsibility of covering loss or damage once an item is reshipped. And finally, that negative feedback cannot be used to coerce a seller into providing benefits outside of her listed terms.

[missjen831]

---

@gchiker22 wrote:

What ebay could do to protect sellers "from themselves" is have better phone support.  I called ebay BEFORE I refunded the buyer and I was told by ebay that I should refund if the item was not received by 12/20.  The rep told me it would be better to refund than risk a case being decided against me and I would then also have negative feedback.  Ebay can easily go into my messages and see that this seller was trying to scam me since he was asking me for a refund and threatening me through ebay messages.  They could also check their phone records and see that I called them and asked them what I should do BEFORE I refunded the buyer.    I was just doing what ebay recommended I do.

---

You didn’t have proof of delivery when the case was opened. That’s what it all comes down to. None of the messages you received would have made a difference in the outcome here. You have no seller protection if you don’t have proof of delivery. Period. Have you contacted eBay and asked for a courtesy refund now that the tracking has been updated? 

[gchiker22]

I did ask ebay to refund me since they themselves advised me to refund the buyer.  I called twice and both times was told that because I voluntarily refunded the buyer they will not refund me.  They both said they completely understand why I chose to refund since that was probably the smartest thing to do to avoid a case being decided against me, and to avoid negative feedback.  I just think they could have been a little more savy about how to advise a seller who is being threatened with negative feedback.  

Thanks to all for your posts, I do appreciate your support!  I had so many problems with foreign buyers in the past so I set my site preferences to US buyers only and have been smooth sailing up till now.  But the suggestion to set my paypal seller preferences to accept only US paypal accounts should help...for awhile anyway until they find another way in.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

If a foreign buyer wins with a freight forwarder and you block their payment or cancel due to problem with address you would deserve a neg IMHO. You cannot just spring it on someone that they can't pay for something when they go to check out.

[emerald40]

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

If a foreign buyer wins with a freight forwarder and you block their payment or cancel due to problem with address you would deserve a neg IMHO. You cannot just spring it on someone that they can't pay for something when they go to check out.

______________________________________________________

I disagree.  When you sell US only, it should not mean buyers can use work arounds by employing freight forwarders.

Sellers set their blocks for a reason and foreign buyers should respect that or at least ask first. 

---