Follow up to buyer selecting local pickup and not paying the shipping cost Mi. - Ca.

[mudshark61369]

Need advice from experienced sellers.  I posted about this on the 23rd. (link below)

Quick recap.

Buyer won auction Thursday the 19th. The listing had 2 shipping methods and local pickup.

Buyer paid Sat. the 21st late in the day, but only paid the item price not the shipping cost. Buyer located in Ca. I'm in Mi.

Both ebay and PayPal purchase details show no shipping selected. (local pickup is the only way that can happen)

Messaged the buyer on the 22nd, suggesting they made a mistake at checkout and to contact me.  (No Reply)

Sent a second message on the 24th saying I would not send the item unless they paid the shipping cost and would cancel. Because local pick up was selected I included my PP email so they could send the funds. No reply as of today.

I called and spoke to rep this morning, about cancelling the order, so there would be a notation to get the shipping defect removed, and be able to get any non positive removed as well.

Now here are the two questions I want advice on.

A)    Which of the three cancellation reasons should I select. I feel by not responding to the shipping funds request, the buyer has cancelled.  I do not want to select Problem with buyer's address.

Because I am going to relist the item I do not want to select Item was lost or damaged.

B)   Since I am going to issue a refund, Should I deduct the PayPal fee from it?  I do not feel I should lose money on this transaction, because of the buyer's (mistake?)

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/BUYERS-NOT-INCLUDING-SHIPPING-COST-WITH-THEIR-PAYMENTS-GLITCH-...

[mtgraves7984]

I suppose if you're going to cancel, 'Problem with buyer's address' would be the closest choice in this circumstance.

I don't know how you can refund without refunding in whole. Sorry this is happening to you.

[mudshark61369]

@mtgraves7984,

Thanks for the reply.  I have contacted Paypal's CS to ask about that. I'll post their reply if and when I receive it.

[luckythewinner]

A couple things to unpack here. 

First, by requesting that shipping costs be sent directly to your PayPal and bypassing eBay, you are technically violating eBay's feee avoidance policy since eBay will not collect their fee on the shipping. 

Second, because of eBay's shipping deadlines IMHO you always want to avoid having to wait for an answer from a buyer. If I were ever to offer an item by local pickup, right in my listing I would spell out the deadline for contacting me and arranging for pickup and the consequences for not doing so.  

(Note that I said "if I were to" because IMHO eBay is simply not well-suited to local pickup transactions so I use other venues for that.)  

Third, IMHO there is no need to contact Customer Support in future cases like this. "Problem with buyer address"  has been the standard operating procedure on these boards for years, and I have never heard of it being an issue. 

[silverstatetreasureboxes]

I would give the buyer until Monday as they might have been travelling ( I doubt to Michigan) and message them one more time. Do you think they just seen free local pickup and assumed the purchase was indeed free? Then use problem with address if you cannot get a hold of them, because 2800+ miles is a problem!!! Good luck to you.

[mudshark61369]

@luckythewinner,

  "First, by requesting that shipping costs be sent directly to your PayPal and bypassing eBay, you are technically violating eBay's feee avoidance policy since eBay will not collect their fee on the shipping".

So tell me what I am supposed to do. Refund the buyer cancel the sale, then create a private listing for them, in the process being charged PayPal fees twice?  The buyer did not pay for 2 days. I sent an invoice an hour after the auction, which only had shipping costs on it and no mention of local Pickup. 

FYI, and this surprised me but no Ca. sales tax was charged either.  Maybe Ca. doesn't charge sales tax on local pick up sales.

  "Second, because of eBay's shipping deadlines IMHO you always want to avoid having to wait for an answer from a buyer. If I were ever to offer an item by local pickup, right in my listing I would spell out the deadline for contacting me and arranging for pickup and the consequences for not doing so".

Already done,  I've made several LP sales, I have a separate selling ID, and know the ropes. 

  "(Note that I said "if I were to" because IMHO eBay is simply not well-suited to local pickup transactions so I use other venues for that.)"

 Actually, for items like the one I sold that come in a large enough box so that it falls into the dimensional shipping category, I get a fair number of LP buyers. 

   I sell mostly vintage toys and hobby items some of which come in huge boxes, and those attract local buyers, since they don't have to pay the shipping cost. Toys/Hobby  items do not sell well on the other sites.  Normally I sell those things at local shows, which are shut down indefinitely due to Covid. 

  As a matter of fact yesterday a buyer from Indianna, whose sister lives near me bought such an item that is in a 23"x 18"x 10" box.  The buyer's brother in law is picking it up today. 

  "Third, IMHO there is no need to contact Customer Support in future cases like this. "Problem with buyer address" has been the standard operating procedure on these boards for years, and I have never heard of it being an issue".

 There were three reasons for contacting C.S. One was the shipping defect which I now know I can get removed, and the second to find out if a possible negative could be removed,  The third was for advice on which cancellation reason to choose. You mention technically violating ebay's rules, then tell me to technically use an invalid reason for cancellation? 

[luckythewinner]

---

---

So tell me what I am supposed to do.

I have no idea what you are supposed to do. That is exactly why I also gave the opinion that IMHO eBay is not a good fit for local pickup. 

You mention technically violating ebay's rules, then tell me to technically use an invalid reason for cancellation? 

Yes, I did. Because I have read posts on this board from sellers who were punished by eBay for trying to arrange PayPal payments outside eBay, but I have never read a post about a seller being sanctioned for using "Problem with buyer's address" when an item could not be delivered. 

[wrong66]

It is absolutely "a problem with buyer's address". Why the reluctance? 

[lacemaker3]

---

@mudshark61369 wrote:

@luckythewinner,

  "First, by requesting that shipping costs be sent directly to your PayPal and bypassing eBay, you are technically violating eBay's feee avoidance policy since eBay will not collect their fee on the shipping".

So tell me what I am supposed to do. Refund the buyer cancel the sale, then create a private listing for them, in the process being charged PayPal fees twice?  The buyer did not pay for 2 days. I sent an invoice an hour after the auction, which only had shipping costs on it and no mention of local Pickup. 

FYI, and this surprised me but no Ca. sales tax was charged either.  Maybe Ca. doesn't charge sales tax on local pick up sales.

...

  "Third, IMHO there is no need to contact Customer Support in future cases like this. "Problem with buyer address" has been the standard operating procedure on these boards for years, and I have never heard of it being an issue".

...

---

I don't believe that this would be considered "eBay fee avoidance" because eBay Blues have posted before that this is an acceptable way to handle the situation when a buyer chooses local pickup, and later asks for the item to be shipped. Or where the buyer asks for an upgraded shipping option and wants to pay the additional cost for it. eBay charges the FVF based on the least-expensive shipping option even if the buyer chooses a more-expensive option, so this would be similar to the case if you had a free-shipping option on the listing. If the listing had a free shipping option, then the FVF on shipping would be zero because of the free option. I'm not saying you did, it's just the same situation, and isn't fee avoidance.

I believe that they have also confirmed that "Problem with buyer's address" is the appropriate choice if you are cancelling in your situation. In this case, the chosen shipping method (local pickup) is not valid for the buyer's shipping address in California. 

If the buyer still wants the item, then you can relist it so that they can purchase it again and choose the correct shipping option and shipping address. This is another way to deal with the issue when a buyer chooses the wrong shipping option.

FYI, California definitely charges sales tax for items that are being picked up by a buyer with a shipping address in California. I confirmed that by checking one of your active listings.

I have encountered this with other states as well, including Michigan. The only way not to be charged sales tax with a local pickup item that is paid through eBay checkout, is to use a shipping address in a state (or province, or country) that doesn't charge sales tax for eBay transactions. I confirmed this personally with a local pickup transaction I purchased a few weeks ago.

---

@mudshark61369 wrote:

@luckythewinner,

...

.... I sent an invoice an hour after the auction, which only had shipping costs on it and no mention of local Pickup. 

...

---

I don't know how your buyer could have not paid the shipping in this case. In my experience (although I don't have recent confirmation of this) when an invoice is sent, it locks in the shipping costs that were on the listing, and even if the buyer changes their shipping address, the shipping costs don't update to the cost for the new address.

If there is more than one shipping option on the invoice, they can choose between the options on the invoice, and sellers can add additional options when they make the invoice, but the buyer can only choose between the options on the invoice, so if  Free Local Pickup wasn't an option, then I don't know how the buyer could have chosen that.

I'm not questioning your statements, but that makes this sound more like a glitch to me. 

As far as not paying the sales tax, if everything is working right, the only way your buyer could not have paid CA sales tax (with a CA address on the transaction) would be if their account has a sales-tax exemption on file with eBay because it is a business account. However, if there's a glitch involved, that goes out the window.

[mudshark61369]

I did as suggested and cancelled using problem with address. Just before cancelling there was a message saying ebay would automatically refund asking if i agreed. I did being sick of dealing with the issue, and  the payment refund did not include PayPal's 2.9% fee but they kept the .30¢ processing charge.  I guess I will have to wait until Dec. 20 to see if any defects are on my account. 

Thanks to all that replied. I know I was a little testy with some of my replies, but they were appreciated just the same.

IMHO, since eBay has decided to open the door for local pickup wider by offering the QR code. They should have also set up a program that will not allow an out of state buyer to select local pickup, unless the seller is messaged and agrees, in cases where the local pickup will be done by a local friend or family member.

[penguins_dont_fly]

---

@mudshark61369 wrote:

IMHO, since eBay has decided to open the door for local pickup wider by offering the QR code. They should have also set up a program that will not allow an out of state buyer to select local pickup, unless the seller is messaged and agrees, in cases where the local pickup will be done by a local friend or family member.

---

There are places in my own state (FL) that are farther away than places in other states

Miami is 679 miles from me

Biloxi, MS is 118 miles from me

New Orleans, LA is 201 miles

Atlanta, GA is 324

and

Lillian, AL is only 10 miles away

What you propose would block the Lillian buyer, but not the Miami one.

[lacemaker3]

@mudshark61369, I'm glad you went ahead and cancelled. I hope you do get the 2.9% back, but the 30¢ is probably gone. I don't think you will get a defect for this. There is not supposed to be one according to policy, and you are supposed to get the eBay FVF credit as well.

Buyers can contact CS and object when the seller chooses problem with buyer's address. But the CS rep will read the messages in that case, and they will be able to see that the buyer did not pay for shipping, and did not contact you to make arrangements for pickup. So they can see that the issue was with the buyer's payment, it was not an issue on your end.

Sometimes a buyer will plan to travel to make a pickup. That's what I did in my recent local pick up transaction. So it could be problematic to restrict local pickup based on the buyer's primary shipping address. Maybe it would be better if the seller always had to agree before the buyer could select local pickup. That would require that some communication has to happen, and if the buyer doesn't make contact about pickup before hand, then they have to choose and pay for a shipping option.

[mudshark61369]

@penguins_dont_fly ,

Good Point.  People from Northern Indiana or Ohio are closer than the northern part of Mi. However,  someone may be willing to make the trip from distan places inside a state depending on the item. Maybe a distance range could be chosen by the seller outside of which a buyer would have to message them, before being able to select Local Pickup. as @lacemaker3  suggested.

A seller should also have an option to cancel a local pickup listing if not contacted by a buyer within say 2-4 days of an auctions end or committing to buy.

[tony1963]

What I have found is that when the air blows hot, you're whole system is shot.  To fix it, someone will rip you off and charge you a lot.