Fighting fraudulent Unwarranted returns

[mvpdeals01]

Spoiler

I must say this was a roller coaster ride from hell but if this posts helps one ☝️ person; it’ll all have been worth it. I recently sold a chain to an individual from the Virgin Islands. Chain was 100% real. Sent it to the buyer following his very prompt payment; even left him a very sweet feedback! One week later to my surprise he opens a disputed and demands refund stating I sent a “wrong item”. Knowing I did no such thing , I ask him to tell me what exactly is the discrepancy. He doesn’t answer so I assume it’s buyers remorse. Agree to refund upon receipt of the item. When it arrives I open it and find a FAKE! I was shocked and appalled! Why would anyone do this to me? I notify eBay I received the wrong item; took less then 19 minutes for eBay to side with buyer and refund the money out of my account back to buyer! I immediately started my research on what to do in this case. 
1: file a police 👮‍♀️ report; state the entire sale; buyer; and venue use ie:EBay 
2: make a Usps Fraud report
3: contact your ADA online with a narrative and they will usually email promptly (save all these emails)
take pictures of the envelope with the item you received at the post office if you can have a witness. 
Have a signed and notarized affidavit discussing what occurred and include that eBay refunded without an investigation. Send as an appeal to eBay and cross your fingers. They helped me after this I did win the case. Hopefully the buyer gets banned! Not sure exactly what they do with his account. 
hope this helps!  
Remember; he who laughs loudest usually gets shhhshed!

[orchids9]

 In some we have had of higher dollar items that just felt off,  we video the opening of the return, and do so at the Post office in front of the post master. Have only had concern a couple times in 20 years (both in the last 6 years) that warranted the extra efforts and won because of it

[jela_9127]

eBay didn't take the money from the buyer, they refunded you out of their pockets. Actually I should say out of the pockets of every seller that pays fvf.

[jela_9127]

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@orchids9 wrote:

 In some we have had of higher dollar items that just felt off,  we video the opening of the return, and do so at the Post office in front of the post master. Have only had concern a couple times in 20 years (both in the last 6 years) that warranted the extra efforts and won because of it

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eBay doesn't watch your video. They have no way of knowing if you tampered with the package before opening. All you're doing is waisting your time and that of the postmaster.

[fa_8305]

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@mvpdeals01 wrote:
Remember; he who laughs loudest usually gets shhhshed!

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Got it. I'm not going to laugh, then.

[femmefan1946]

You sold a chain.

The buyer filed a Not As Described Dispute.

You told him to return it for refund.

The buyer returned  a different chain.

You complained to eBay who accepted the buyer's claim and refunded him.

You appealed, following the recommended steps.

EBay accepted your appeal and refunded you the original payment.

So.

Cutting to the chase.

The buyer has the chain. You have the money.

And whether it comes to anything or not: 

• There is a police report about the transaction claiming that the buyer committed fraud .
• There is a USPS postal inspection service report about the transaction claiming that the buyer committed fraud .

This is business, not personal.

If I were the buyer, I would be most concerned about the USPS postal inspectors.

[fa_8305]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

So.

Cutting to the chase.

The buyer has the chain. You have the money.

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So.

Cutting to the chase.

The buyer has the chain and a full refund. You have the money that eBay curtsied.

[trukur_0]

Sad, how many buyers jump on the "No Returns = free item" bandwagon.

Taking what has been stated in this thread, this buyer just stole almost $700 from the seller collective.

Please start offering 30 day returns, you may not be so lucky next time.

[femmefan1946]

I agree.

I would never have a No Returns policy, particularly since No Returns does not mean No Refunds.

I believe the buyer should be required to return the item she does not want and finds unsatisfactory before getting a refund.

That's what we have to do at WalMart, right?

The big question is who pays for the return.

And just as WalMart doesn't pay your busfare to bring back that unsatisfactory package of tube socks, in many cases the seller should not be paying for the return either.

BUT

EBay can't see the item. EBay can't see what the seller sent, what the buyer got, how the buyer treated the package or the purchase.

No one but the buyer and the seller can know that.

this buyer just stole almost $700 from the seller collective.

Which is probably true, although we have only the OPs word for that.

Most people are honest.

But there are differences of opinion.

And that's why it was important to get the USPS postal inspectors involved. One complaint like this might be glossed over. Two? The buyer would have a lot of explaining to do.

A further note.

Sellers whose products are high value/high fraud should be carrying commercial insurance, not depending on postal or third party insurance from a shipper.

Loss in transit is very unlikely, especially on tracked goods. Damage in transit is only slightly more likely. 

A commercial /business insurance policy will cover loss or damage in transit, shoptheft (like this), shrinkage, fire or water damage, and could also include coverage for travelling to shows /flea markets and at those shows.

We have used Hugh Wood Insurance International, with offices in Toronto, London and New York.  They sell annual policies, not one-offs, but their annual rate is better than most generalist commercial insurers because they have always specialized in collectibles starting with stamp collectors and branching out from there.

They are among other things comfortable with the concept that the value of our stock may vary from day to day as we buy and sell.

[berserkerplanet]

>>I would never have a No Returns policy, particularly since No Returns does not mean No Refunds.

Yeah, No returns doesn't mean no refunds.

>>I believe the buyer should be required to return the item she does not want and finds unsatisfactory before
>>getting a refund. That's what we have to do at WalMart, right?

I believe that too, but what does a no returns policy have to do with the a buyer sending an item back for a refund?

If it's SNAD, the return policy doesn't matter, and if it's remorse and the seller accepts the return, the buyer has to send the item back on their dime to receive a refund.

Really sounds like you are trying to assert the old wives tale that a No Returns policy means buyer gets a refund without a return. (please say it isn't so - like smallpox, I thought that rumor has finally been eradicated)

[orangehound]

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@mvpdeals01 wrote:

I must say this was a roller coaster ride from hell but if this posts helps one ☝️ person; it’ll all have been worth it.

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I am very happy that eBay covered this for you, but they don't always.  There are a couple of lessons that all sellers need to be aware of:

1. eBay has loopholes that thieves can exploit.  These thieves tend to target inexperienced sellers who are selling expensive and desirable items like iPhones, jewelry, laptops, designer bags, etc.
2. If one is intent on selling such an item, you need to minimize your exposure to these thieves - top of the list is DO NOT sell internationally.
3. I believe it is also highly important to sell as buy-it-now, immediate payment required, and priced to sell at a competitive price (a price at or just below what you see similar items going for).  You do this so that you'll have a much higher chance of attracting a genuine buyer ... quickly.  If you price your item high, then the only buyers you will attract will be thieves because thieves don't care what price they are paying because ... well ... they aren't paying.

[sk.ms_77]

Straight from the MBG

When an item isn't returned to the seller

In some instances, we may not require that an item be returned to the seller. In these situations, we refund the buyer and may seek reimbursement from the seller, for example if:

• The seller chooses not to accept a return request or provide a return shipping label
• The item location was misrepresented
• It's hazardous to ship back the item
• The item no longer has a value (for instance, a ticket for a cancelled event)

[berserkerplanet]

And what does that have to do with having a no returns policy?

[femmefan1946]

@berserkerplanet 

A re-statement of eBay's policy about returns.

Basically giving the circumstances in which a buyer may be refunded even without returning the item to the seller.

And particularly if the seller refuses a return.

[berserkerplanet]

But still has absolutely nothing to do with having a no returns policy versus a returns policy.

If a MBG scenario, return policies have no bearing.
If a remorse return on a no returns listing, seller CAN refuse the return, and buyer will not be refunded per policy.
If a remorse return on a listing with a return policy, seller can NOT refuse the return, or the buyer may be refunded without returning the item per policy.

I really don't see where you and sk.ms_77 are trying to go with this line.