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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

Back in 2021 another seller posted some  helpful information about RED POINT making false counterfeit claims and getting eBay to take down legitimate/legal listings...  Well, RED POINT is still at it!
 

 

ALERT TO ALL SELLERS!!!

 

Red Point is a hired company that searches the internet for counterfeit items. We have had three FALSE counterfeit claims made by this unscrupulous company on behalf of the companies that hired them. According to the Red Points User Guide their software will report an item as being counterfeit for just selling the item below a set price (Meaning: It does not matter if the item is authentic or not, if it is being sold for less than what Red Points client wants it sold for Red Point will send a DCMA notice to Ebay that your item is counterfeit).

 

** Fair warning was not provided in this case because the reason it was reported is due to concerns about the item its self and no modifications can be made to bring the listing into compliance.**Due to previous violations, your account is up for a 7 day selling restriction which will be placed after the 48 hour fair warning period. Please take this time to review your other listings for similar issues as this will lead to an even longer restriction in the future if we continue to receive these reports. While you are restricted, you will not be able to revise your active listings, list new items, and your items will not be searchable through the search bar.

 

So here is the impact of these false reports... Ebay immediately removes your listing.

1st offense is a warning

2nd counterfeit notice is a 3-day account suspension

3rd counterfeit report is a 7-day suspension

4th counterfeit report is a 10-day suspension. 

5th ????

 

If you are having this problem with this company please write a response. We have filed a DMCA Counter-Notice and are collecting as much information on their fraudulent business practice in order to build a better case against them for damages.

 

Ebay... BLOCK THIS COMPANY FROM BEING ALLOWED TO SEND FALSE COUNTERFEIT NOTICES!!!

Message 1 of 9
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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

I'm a VeRO member and I try to take the time when I can to help others understand why their listing was removed and what their options are going forward. Listings can be removed for a variety of reasons. eBay does a very poor job in educating sellers on good practices of selling branded items to avoid these situations.

 

 

DMCA has nothing to do with trademarks and patents. A DMCA counter notice is only applicable for copyright takedowns.

 

Based on the context of your post, it sounds like they reported you for either trademark infringement or patent infringement. eBay is required to remove the listing per the Notice of Claimed Infringement form received.

 

eBay will not accept your DMCA counter notice as it is not a valid tool to challenge a NOCI for trademark or patent infringement.

 

 

 

 

Without revealing the brand or their information, is their contact information in the communication you received? There should also be a reason stated in the communication why the listing was removed.



If you truly know the item is authentic, as long as you have invoices from the distributor you purchased from that you know is 100% authentic, send a kindly worded email to the contact email described in the VeRO communication with your item number, a copy of the removal communication, and your invoices. Put the ball in their court to make it right. A lot of the larger brands outsource listing removals to an agency that gets paid for each removal. Unfortunately, many of these agencies are poorly ran and do zero due diligence prior to having a listing removed.



If that fails, document it and send it to eBay. You may be able to at least get the violation removed (wouldn't mean you could relist). While I know it's difficult and understand how you feel, leave emotion out of the communication with the rights owner.



Another thing worth checking would be to see if the brand owner has any warranties on their item that would prohibit you from selling it as 'new'. This is a common practice to prevent unauthorized resellers from selling 'new' items (even if 100% authentic).

 

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point


@frugality_inc wrote:

If you truly know the item is authentic, as long as you have invoices from the distributor you purchased from that you know is 100% authentic, send a kindly worded email to the contact email described in the VeRO communication with your item number, a copy of the removal communication, and your invoices. Put the ball in their court to make it right. A lot of the larger brands outsource listing removals to an agency that gets paid for each removal. Unfortunately, many of these agencies are poorly ran and do zero due diligence prior to having a listing removed.

Just to back that up.

 

In have had 2 complaints for counterfeits from the U S Marine Corps for some hats I was selling. There was an email link in the notice. I contacted the USMC, gave them the name of the authorized licensed manufacturer, included a note from the manufacturer that in fact I bought them from them and sent a picture of the USMC holograms on the hats.

 

BOTH take downs were withdrawn, the hats were relisted and I have had no problems since.

 

IT IS NOT HOPELESS if you follow procedure.

 

BUT YOU MUST RESPOND

 

 

"Laissez-faire capitalism (AKA The Great Material Continuum) is the only social system based on the recognition of individual rights and, therefore, the only system that bans force from social relationships." ~ Ayn Rand
Message 3 of 9
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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

VeRO is often abused, and the DMCA often misused, but still ebay gets to do what it wants. In a nutshell, when a VeRO member requests it, eBay removes an item in question, whether it has to legally or not.


Note that the actual DMCA law applies to copyright violations only. Authenticity and trademark abuse are not covered by the DMCA for web site removal under the law. It's eBay's own policy that extends the DMCA like behavior to this. The downside is that as a result you don't get the DMCA mandated remedies for people who abuse it.


Best you can do now is figure out what triggered the take down, and was it valid. First step is to contact the VeRO member and if no response, call ebay. Usually unless this is your main item of business, it is not worth the fight to relist one item and risk further trouble. Of course this is what VeRO abusers count on.


However, if it is clear abuse you have the right file in your local federal court, and here the loser pays the winner's court fees and up to trebled damages. Many have done this and won, even without an attorney, and once eBay's legal department is notified of the outcome, they leave you alone. Still, hardly worth it unless you have damages and it is affecting your ongoing business.


Many have also found a simple letter from their attorney to the VeRO member with a copy to ebay's legal department, quickly gets an abuser to back down. You also can file a counter-notice yourself, but it really only has legal standing in copyright issues, but ebay in the past use to review them anyway.

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point


@klarenfx wrote:
 

Ebay... BLOCK THIS COMPANY FROM BEING ALLOWED TO SEND FALSE COUNTERFEIT NOTICES!!!


If the company is authorized by the brands to act on their behalf and eBay ignored a Notice of Claimed Infringement, eBay would lose it's safe harbor protection and potentially be held liable for any infringement by the seller whose listing had been reported. 

 

I doubt eBay's legal department would recommend that course of action. 

 

 

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

Ebay can do what it wants, which is does with VeRO, but usually only honors a Notice of Claimed Infringement, if there is pending litigation to validate the claim.  Otherwise ebay tries to stay uninvolved unless further action is taken.

 

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point


@rfmtm wrote:

Ebay can do what it wants, which is does with VeRO, but usually only honors a Notice of Claimed Infringement, if there is pending litigation to validate the claim. 


Absolutely not true. I am a VERO member representing a few music artists, and eBay has honored every single Notice of Claimed Infringement that I have filed. And I have filed hundreds. 

 

There has never been any "pending litigation" regarding these items and eBay has done nothing to validate the claims.

 

 

 

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

I have received a VERO notice because of Redpoints for an item that is 100% legit. Completely unfair. 

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False Counterfeit Claims by Red Point

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.

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