Does refusing a package still void buyer protection?

[sylvan_belle]

I sold a fairly pricy clothing item to a buyer.

The same day that it was delivered, she sent me a message that she had accidentally refused it - she thought it was something else. She said she wanted it and requested that I resend it.

After that, she messaged me several times a day with this:

Please. Resend. Package.

Just like that! ugh.

I patiently answered every time.  The tracking didn't even update for about a week.

SHE THEN FILED A "REQUEST" for non delivery/item not received.  She checked the box that requested a refund, but then in the note to seller, she said "Please resend my package."

Finally, the tracking back to me showed up and it was delivered.

She was still messaging me several times every day; "Resend. My. Package."

I immediately messaged her to try to arrange re-payment of the postage.

There is no way in either Paypal or Ebay to do this.  (I miss the days when the Paypal payment had the buyer's email. sigh.)

I also entered the tracking info into the Request Case, showing "package refused return to sender."

She still continued to message me saying "send. it."

Finally, with much trepidation, I messaged her asking for her email or phone number so I could send an invoice for the shipping (worried I'd get slapped by Ebay! argh.)

She finally sent me her phone number and I sent the invoice via Paypal.

She's messaged me a couple of more times,  confirming her address and asking me to send it. 

She never confirmed that she'd received the money request, and she never paid.

I don't know what to do next.

Should I wait for the request to close or be escalated?

I don't want to refund at this point, because I believe I'd lose the original postage, and I don't know if I even have the option for a partial refund through the case.

So irritating.

Has anyone ever had this happen lately, where a package was refused?

What happened in the end? Did the buyer win the Item Not Received case?

I don't have a problem with refunding - I just don't think I should be out the postage and fees. And, I don't want to do it within the request/case because she did, in fact, receive the package.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

[fashunu4eeuh]

By refusing the package she voided her buyer protection. Upload the tracking number to the case. In eBay’s eyes, it is considered delivered, and she will lose the case.

Then, after it is closed in your favor, go to PayPal and give her a partial refund, withholding the postage. (I don’t know what eBay’s take on withholding the postage is, except that if this was a free shipping transaction, normally the seller has to eat that loss. But under the circumstances, perhaps it would be alright to do a partial refund.)

Message the buyer with the details and tell her the matter is now closed, and since she did not pay to have the package resent, that she is receiving a refund not the item. It is up to you whether or not to put her on your block list, but i would consider it.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Here is the policy info that i didnt include with my above post:

“Buyer obligations

Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee.“

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[sylvan_belle]

Thank you.  That was my plan....but I'm not so sure Ebay still considers that refusal voids buyer protection.  It used to be in their help / policy pages, but it has been removed at some point!  arrrrgh.....it is so easy to be paranoid when they keep changing the policies!!!

Also, it really irritates me that in that scenario, I won't even get the final value fees back.

I know...I know...I'm obsessing! Oh well, win a few, lose a few.  sigh. The cost of doing business, etc. etc.

Thanks for the supporting comments!

Oh, and she will be SO BLOCKED! HA!

[sylvan_belle]

OH! THANK YOU!! I thought that language had been removed.  You have to click through so much stuff to see it! THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

Whew, I feel better now.  

[fab_finds4u]

Not so fast. Around 5 years ago there was a discussion with the blues about a seller having to refund if a package just showed up on their doorstep they weren't expecting, and do they have to refund if the buyer refused delivery.  Herman on the Money Back Guarantee Team said if the item was returned within the item's return policy and the buyer had tracking showing delivered to the seller they would be covered. If the seller's policy was no returns they would not be covered in a remorse claim. It seems like if the seller accepts returns they have to accept a return for any reason including they no longer wanted it so they refused delivery.

For sure the seller shouldn't have the item and the money.  Deduct the original shipping and refund .

[sylvan_belle]

Thank you.  I would never keep the money and the item.

Just wanted to make sure I was clear on that. I try to do the right thing.

Also, the buyer emailed me this morning AGAIN to mail her the item, and STILL NO PAYMENT.

I'm just worried that she'll escalate the Item Not Received case, and I'll lose. But, if I refund now, I don't think I can give a partial refund through the case?? I'd have to refund shipping, too. 

It seems to me that Ebay is rather capricious about following their own written policy - I'd be interested to know if anyone has lately won a case where the buyer refused delivery.

Once again, I don't mind refunding.  I just don't want to do it in response to an Item Not Received case.  The buyer received the item, after all, and I did nothing wrong.

Plus, she keeps telling me she wants it!!!!

I know it's not the end of the world, but the whole thing is really annoying.

Well, anyway, everyone have a lovely day! In the whole scheme of things, this is a minor irritation!

[1tuna]

it may be a minor irritation but your buyer is just playing head games,if they wanted it reshipped they would aknowledge the message and either ask for free shipping or what you can do to fix this mistake they caused

next thing you know they will want to know whats the holdup.   I think when you file an abusive buyer thingy you can hold back some money.

it may just be me but it seems that certain buyers have some sense of entiltement.I can just feel this being turned back around on you

[sylvan_belle]

Yes, I think it possibly won't end completely in my favor. 

It just occurred to me - maybe she can't figure out a way to pay the Paypal invoice if she doesn't have money in her Paypal account.  I don't imagine a buyer would have a balance.

Trying to be fair minded.

I don't understand why Ebay doesn't make some sort of provision for cases like this.  We need the option of sending an invoice to buyers for additional services.

And, I have to move to Managed Payments soon, and THEN there won't even be ANY way to arrange additional invoiced amounts.  Grr.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi, @sylvan_belle The most important thing now is to close the case. After you upload the tracking, you are good to go. You will not be refunding thru the case because that comes after the case. It is ok to escalate the claim to eBay. They will look at the tracking and see there was a refused delivery. Then they will close the case in your favor and then you go to PayPal and refund the buyer, withholding the postage.

It will require a leap of faith to escalate the claim. I would also reference the policy wording about her refusing the package and voiding her Money Back Guarantee privileges in the notes of the case. Have you reviewed the policy at all? There are some exceptions when a package is refused, but none of them apply in your case. However, you should look at them just for your own information.

Normally, I would advise the seller to call eBay and have the case closed while on the phone with them. But because of the pandemic, they have changed the customer service channels to email and the like. You could still try to call or have them do a call back, and see if that works. It might. I wish you the best of luck as you move forward. 

[reallynicestamps]

It just occurred to me - maybe she can't figure out a way to pay the Paypal invoice if she doesn't have money in her Paypal account. I don't imagine a buyer would have a balance.

This is business not personal.

She doesn't need a Paypal balance.

Paypal is more often used by buyers to anonymize their credit card or bank account information.

She can't open a PP account without at least one of those.

It's actually a Bad Idea for a buyer to use a PP balance because once sent, it cannot be reclaimed. Best is a credit card, because overdrawing a bank account  may allow the PP payment to go through, but the bank will charge overdraft fees.

You have the item back?

Refund her original payment less your PP fees on the payment and less the shipping costs you paid out and less the Internet Sales Tax if any which you never touched but paid PP fees on anyway.

Then Block her .

If you can refuse communication.

Every time you see her ID in an eBay Message or an email, delete it.

It won't get better.

The whole mess was her fault and she is  just being a sookie baby who won't take responsibility for her own actions.

[sylvan_belle]

You are totally right about it not getting better.

I have bent over backwards to try to help her.

I cancelled the money request and sent a Paypal statement instead, thinking it would be easier for her to pay with her credit card.

But now she says she "doesnt. no. ho. to. use. Paypal."

Now she wants me to refund.

But, I'm not refunding through the case because why should I refund postage?

Today she is saying "why.dont.we.start.over. refund. i. wood. love to have. jacket."

ARRRRGH.

I told her to close the case and she can't figure out how to do it. I give up on trying to walk her through this - I don't even know what the case looks like on her side, so I can't give her step by step directions.

I'm really apprehensive about escalating it.  You never know what will happen in that case!!! It's so unpredictable, even though the situation and the policies are clear on this one.

I don't want to lose all the funds, plus get a strike!!!!!  I've tried so hard....

Do you think it would be okay to also deduct Final Value Fees from the refund??

I'd normally be less nit picky and more generous, but this has cost so much time and frustration.

Well, thanks for the support.  I appreciate it.  The whole thing's a mess!!

I'll try doing a call back. sigh.  Such a huge waste of my time!!!

[sylvan_belle]

I tried the customer service callback option.

The callback time was less than 10 minutes.

It was rather stressful, because I could barely understand the agent, but I stated my case re. the Refusal Delivery and how it voids the Money Back Guarantee, and got it closed in my favor!!! It was pretty trouble free.

Whew!

Now I can give a partial refund and get this behind me.

Well, actually, the buyer still wants to buy the item.  I think I should probably block her.  I'm so done.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement.