Conversation with a representative at Adyen about eBay "seems" to negate eBay's seller protection?

[lagarto_electronico]

I just had a lengthy conversation with a representative at Adyen who vaguely explained the nature of their relationship with eBay. However, it brought to light a basic problem that would make it impossible for this platform to be viable for casual seller (unless the Adyen representative and myself are mistaken).

To try to understand, I used a hypothetical sale of a $1000 motorcycle engine to a buyer in my discussion with this representative.

(1) The buyer purchases the $1000 motorcycle engine from the seller which is shipped to their address.

(2) The buyer opens a "Not As Described" claim, stating the engine is the wrong color, then forces a return. The buyer keeps the engine and returns a concrete block in a box. The box is returned to the seller with a tracking number.

(3) As soon as the box is marked as "delivered", all $1000 of the money automatically is credited back to the buyer's bank account.  On the back-end Adyen simply processes the API key (the technical process of digitally transferring funds securely).

(4) Once the seller discovers the truth, the seller obtains a police report and a USPS report to substantiate that fraud has taken place for eBay.

(5) The seller appeals the case with eBay. Representatives at eBay agree that the buyer was not telling the truth.  However, as the money is already in the buyer's bank account (and not a PayPal account, which acts as a sort of buffer in these transactions), the bank will not release it back to eBay or the seller.

So, the seller has now lost both the motorcycle engine, the $1000, and had to pay $150 for the concrete block to be mailed to the seller. Under US Code 18 1341,1343, and 1346 this constitutes mail / wire fraud which is a federal crime.

(6) The Adyen representative concluded that it was her understanding that there was no real mechanism to return the funds to the seller in these situations. The bank has the final say. The representative and I agreed that without the legal and investigative resources of a large corporation to come to bear on the criminal exploiting eBay, the concept of seller protection would be negated as I understand it.

Am I missing something here?

[globexk]

Good luck filing a police report on an internet transaction. I have yet to file one in Maryland and Virginia the police departments will not take it because there is so much fraud on internet transactions that is verbatim from a LT.

[southern*sweet*tea]

---

@globexk wrote:

Good luck filing a police report on an internet transaction. I have yet to file one in Maryland and Virginia the police departments will not take it because there is so much fraud on internet transactions that is verbatim from a LT.

---

Wow, that's pitiful!  Our little podunk Sheriff's dept. had an entire division dedicated to internet fraud. They work with the state. I know they'll take your report at least. Not sure what would happen after that, they are too busy busting counterfeiters, child porn, human traffickers and people trying to sell and buy meth online.

You wouldn't think it, but human trafficking is big time from Atlanta and New Orleans to Memphis.  They like to want to meet here coming from Atlanta because we're only 90 miles outside Memphis with the interstate going through.    😞

[jonathankirkland]

---

@donsdetour wrote:

"The buyer keeps the engine and returns a concrete block in a box. The box is returned to the seller with a tracking number."

This single statement of the imagined situation make it completely for the buyer in a payment dispute:

You have no proof what you sent and no proof what was returned. You could have put a brick in a box to claim such happened etc.

This becomes  mater for LAW ENFORCEMENT and or cival courts. Not some payment system, or eBay.

---

The problem is though that eBay is FACILITATING this fraudulent behavior and I would even go so far as to call them an accomplice in these malicious thefts. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'm waiting for a huge class action suit against ebay for helping thousands of criminals to defraud thousands of sellers for millions and millions of dollars. Think about it, I bet for everyone who has reported such a theft on these and other online forums

there are 20x or 30x more who didn't come here to talk about it. 

And don't tell me ebays TOS or whatever **bleep** would hold up at a Supreme court level which is where I'd expect such a case to eventually end up. 

[kensgiftshop]

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

---

And don't tell me ebays TOS or whatever **bleep** would hold up at a Supreme court level which is where I'd expect such a case to eventually end up. 

---

Why wouldn't it?

You agreed to their terms when you signed up to sell here.

[itsjustasprain]

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

---

---

The problem is though that eBay is FACILITATING this fraudulent behavior and I would even go so far as to call them an accomplice in these malicious thefts.  

---

Im sure the losses are a lot higher than what we read here as you say. But at the same time Ebay does not get their cut when the scam buyer gets refunded. They would much rather bill the seller for a successful sale. The problem is that there is no way to know who for sure to believe. So all they can do is unwind the sale according to them. 

Im not saying that is guaranteed to be fair because we hear all the horror stories here when its not. Even if the buyer isnt a total scammer Ebay has nowhere near enough resources to really look at each case. There are millions of buyers and sellers. If you do get ripped off here then the best thing you can do is go after the buyer directly by filing police reports and going after them in civil court. That can cost a lot so again the rule is dont sell anything you cant afford to lose entirely.

Like - I think you would have to be out of your mind to sell certain things here. We can all think of some categories where the odds of getting ripped off are way higher than others - even if you go into it with your eyes wide open there are still things like a returned box of rocks that will put you in the loser seat unless you go after the scammer yourself - civil suit in court or file mail fraud complaints & ect.

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

---

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I'm waiting for a huge class action suit against ebay for helping thousands of criminals to defraud thousands of sellers for millions and millions of dollars. 

---

Yeah - I really dont think thats going to happen. Ebay has been at this way too long so that idea has probably been discussed among lawyers and abandoned many times over. Ebay would say for starters that a seller can rip off a buyer as easily as a buyer can rip off a seller because no one can prove for sure who sent what or who received what.

[numisnorway]

A seller who rips of a buyer can be left with negative feedback so the playing field isnt exactly level.

[katzrul15]

---

@numisnorway wrote:

A seller who rips of a buyer can be left with negative feedback so the playing field isnt exactly level.

---

E-Bay cares about illuminating Bad Sellers on the platform.  They don't care about bad buyers.  If they did, we'd have better parameters and Seller protection.