mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@gurlcat wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:But if the buyer claims it is broken, not as described, etc, not so easy. It is possible to win some of these, but it take very good evidence. And you have to submit it timely so they see it before deciding.
Actually the one I remember best was an INAD, the buyer had tried to get a partial refund without photos, but was thwarted because I encouraged her to initiate a return for a full refund (on my dime of course, free returns). So then she filed a chargeback. But the reason this one really stands out in my memory is the way I was told to handle it, by both a phone CSR and a Facebook rep (in fact I believe this was the first time I contacted them, on advice from people here in the community). -This was when you could upload only ONE file as evidence for your case, and both of these employees were telling me to just upload a screenshot of the tracking showing delivery date. This made no sense to me because it wasn't an INR, but they were both like "Trust me, just do it." So I did. Then however many days later the CC decided in their own customer's favor of course .... but ebay covered it for me; I didn't even have to make a formal appeal or even another phone call.
I guess the reason those employees told me to just upload tracking was to affirm within ebay's own system that the buyer definitely had the item, therefore could have filed a return if she wanted, since it wouldn't cost her anything, therefore I had done everything ebay could ask of a seller. I don't even think being a TRS was part of it (nothing in the list of perks states anything about extra protection), but having 30 days free returns does.
Yes, as I explained before the INR Seller protection here is excellent and that is why you were not held responsible to refund the buyer.
Back when only one document could be submitted I was all over these threads telling sellers to create a document in MS Word or a PDF and copy and paste everything they needed to submit into the file they created so all evidence could get submitted.
While we do have more documents now that can be sent, if it isn't enough for the evidence you want to submit, you can use the same method now.
@themartinlady wrote:Okay. That isn't my point. There is a charge back fraud problem. It's happening constantly and it's going to stop people from selling. I'm talking fraud. Pure fraud. Not what happened a million years ago when it was the Wild West on eBay. I'm not sure what your point is about the past. I'm talking using charge backs now in this century as a way to get a refund and keep the item, FRAUDULENTLY. Theft and fraud. It has nothing to do with working out a legitimate problematic sale. If you have not experienced it, great. But if you sell, guess what, you are going to experience it-and it is not fair and it is not fun. It's awful.
If you are getting so many Chargeback that you can't run a profitable business here, there is a bigger problem in play here.
Yes Chargebacks are problematic, they have been for years. Many of us have dealt with them for decades. Some are of the opinion you can't win, so they don't do anything and of course they lose the Chargeback. The smart sellers gather all their evidence to include their own written summary of what happened written in a professional and factual way and submit it to the CCC for their review.
It seems to me that as more and more sellers do this, more and more sellers are starting to win these things. But leave no stone unturned. All messages between you and the buyer, if the buyer's FB left for others shows abuse, include that, tracking, pics, copy of your listing, etc.
The other thing about expensive items involved in a chargeback. If you don't win and the CCC allows the buyer to keep the item, file a police report against the buyer for theft. If you shipped via USPS, file with the PO for Mail Fraud, which is a Federal Crime. File a case in Small Claims Court. More and more states are willing to do them virtually now, so there may be no travel required.
@dnasilver wrote:Why are eBays hands tied? The bank on the credit card has zero rights to take funds from you. eBay is the one taking the money from your account through their processor.
The same way PayPal, Amazon, Etsy and all the others are. This is NOT unique to Ebay.
" ...CC companies will issue the refund without requiring the card holder to return the item and that has become the scammers loophole. "
Yes this is very true. However if the item is worth enough, file in a Small Claim Court against the buyer. Many states offer a virtual version of going to court now. And while CCCs get away with allowing the buyer to keep the item and the money, a Judge won't. That is undue enrichment and other legal terms I'm sure. The buyer will be made to return the item to the seller or the money but they can't keep both.
@asset_liquidators wrote:"When the buyer files for INAD with a credit card, chances of winning are slim".
That should read, 'When the buyer files for INAD with a credit card, chances of winning on EBAY are slim'.
Ebay doesn't actually fight these. If they did then they wouldn't force a vendor to cram all info onto one pdf page.
I have successfully won on other sites that actually fight these on your behalf and allow you to submit as much evidence as possible in addition to allowing you to come back and submit more evidence at a later time.
That is not true. I know many would like to blame Ebay, but chargebacks and their outcomes are not Ebay's fault any more than it was PayPal's, Etsy's, Amazon's etc.
You are correct Ebay doesn't fight these. The seller submits evidence [or should] to prove they are in the right. That is the same on all sites I've sold on.
While when the process only allowed us one document to send, that had noting to do with anything other than a little extra work for a seller. Now there are more documents that can be submitted so you don't have to worry about that anymore unless you have lots of info, then you may have to create a MS word or PDF to cover those things.
Ebay allows you to submit as much info as you want. It may be in a different way from other sites, but you are not limited to what you can submit unless you limit yourself.
