Case opened - how to respond?

[wowitsdark]

I've sold thousands of items over the years and I believe this is the first case I've had opened against me.  There are several firsts associated with this transaction, actually...

I sold a DVD set, new and unopened. It had been perpetually listed for months, and when it sold, I could not locate it. Absolutely no clue where it went (first time in 21 years of selling I've ever lost something I sold). Gave up looking and simply purchased one from another seller to have drop-shipped (so to speak) to my Puerto Rican buyer.  It was about a $15 sale and the one I purchased to replace it was about the same price.

I inputted my buyer's shipping info and reached out to the seller to make sure they saw that the shipping info was different than my own. They did and were happy to accommodate.  I received a tracking number and inputted it into my selling portal for my buyer.

Three weeks later (this week) my buyer opened a claim saying it was not received. At about the same time I had a message from my seller saying they received it back in the mail.  I tracked the package, and it appears it made it to their town, a notice to pick it up was left, they apparently attempted to pick it up, and then they sent it back to the seller unopened, return to sender.

I responded to the case with a message saying they should look at the tracking and see that a delivery attempt was made and that it was returned. I also said I'd definitely work with them to make sure they received it, and asked them to verify that they had given me the correct address.  and... I've not heard a word back from them.

Today I got an email from eBay saying I have until tomorrow to work it out with my buyer.

How should I proceed?

[inhawaii]

I would have never done what you did with the drop ship thing.  I would have just told the buyer that i couldn't find the item, cancelled the sale and refund the buyer.  That being said, given the situation you're in now, again i would cancel the sale and refund the buyer. Try as best as you can to make it right with your buyer and make  your buyer happy.  THEN you can work things out with your drop shipper.

Good luck!

[wowitsdark]

Thanks. My seller (aka drop-shipper) sells a lot and has 100% feedback. They did nothing wrong as far as I can tell. Communicated well, including letting me know as soon as they received the return package. Bottom line - I wanted my buyer to get what they bought, which was a new, unopened DVD set. Had they not chosen to send it back, there'd have been no issues.

Do they have any obligation to respond to my response asking that they verify their address?

[wowitsdark]

BTW- I see that it does say "Awaiting buyer's action" in my Resolution Center.  If I try to click through to "View Details" it gives me a message that says, "What you need to know before you proceed," followed by three scenarios.  

None of the scenarios note whether the buyer responding or failing to respond will have any impact on anything. It just says it's awaiting their response.

If the buyer does not respond to me, what occurs?  Will it escalate via bot and automatically find in their favor after four days?  Even though I responded asking that they verify their address and tracking shows attempted delivery to them and that it was delivered back at its shipping origin after package refusal? 

[moonbloodstone]

I thought if a package was refused then automatically the seller wins the case? I'd call Customer service Early in the AM to get an American call center.  Chances are You will have to refund minus shipping fees. In fact, that is probably what I'd do refund and Keep the shipping charges. I certainly would NOT let this time out. That could ALSO get You a defect. 

It is bad advice to cancel an order. You will get a defect. Most small sellers only get one or two of those before being sanctioned. 

[mam98031]

You were just trying to take care of your customer.   Don't feel bad about that at all.  You were being a responsible seller.

Now if your tracking shows that it was delivered or a delivery attempt was made, then you should be just fine.  I would not wait until Ebay does something with the claim.  I ALWAYS call Ebay.  I have them close the claim in my favor which is supported by the Ebay rules.  If your tracking shows delivered, you are fine.  If it shows a delivery attempt, you are fine.  If it were to show that the buyer refused delivery, you would be fine in that case too.

My recommendation to you is tomorrow morning CALL Ebay.  Have them close the claim as tracking shows delivered.

DO NOT offer up extra information like you lost the product and opt'd for a different method to fulfill the order.  That has NOTHING to do with your current issue.  Stick to the facts throwing in other information just muddies the waters so to speak.  This should be a simple and quick call to make.

[fashunu4eeuh]

---

@wowitsdark wrote:

BTW- I see that it does say "Awaiting buyer's action" in my Resolution Center.  If I try to click through to "View Details" it gives me a message that says, "What you need to know before you proceed," followed by three scenarios.  

None of the scenarios note whether the buyer responding or failing to respond will have any impact on anything. It just says it's awaiting their response.

If the buyer does not respond to me, what occurs?  Will it escalate via bot and automatically find in their favor after four days?  Even though I responded asking that they verify their address and tracking shows attempted delivery to them and that it was delivered back at its shipping origin after package refusal? 

---

Hi, an attempted delivery may count as a delivery in eBay land, but i cannot find that in the policies to back it up. And to clarify, are you saying the buyer refused the package and the carrier sent it back, or did the package not get picked up in a timely fashion, therefore it was returned to sender? In both those scenarios, the Money Back Guarantee is voided. Nevertheless, have you uploaded the tracking to the case? That should win the case for you. I would also call Customer Service to have them review the tracking and advise.

But, i see you are just trying to service your customer, so obviously you are attempting to get them the set. Normally on a returned package, I would request the buyer re-pay for the second shipping if it was their fault that they did not pick up the package on time. (Now if the package was sent back thru no fault of the buyer, then i might eat the cost and tell them the package is on its way back to them if that is what they are wanting. Does he want the refund or the package?) 

Actually, since the buyer is not responding, you could simply refund him, be done with it, and send him to the other seller to re-purchase the item. You lost control of the transaction by involving a third party. Not criticizing your choice, it is commendable how acute your sense of customer service is, but you had to rely on someone who might not share your philosophy of service. It is usually not a good idea to place the shipping responsibility on someone besides yourself, even tho you vetted the other seller. You can't guarantee shipping will happen. That's not what happened in this case, but it is an added risk to involve the third party.

Below is the MBG link, just in case it's needed.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy... 

[wowitsdark]

Thanks, all.

I just spent what ended up being a useless hour and a half on the phone trying to get some resolution.   

For some reason unknown to me or to the CSR, when I try to input the tracking number into the claim it won't let it submit and gives an 'invalid tracking number' error. When you go to USPS, however, it tracks just fine and shows the following (I've masked the sending zip/info below):

• Apr 25, 2019
• 06:41am

• ARRIVAL AT UNIT
• [Return destination]

• Apr 25, 2019
• 02:12am

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• [Return destination]

• Apr 23, 2019
• 19:18pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 23, 2019
• 16:57pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:55pm

• RETURN TO SENDER PROCESSED
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:53pm

• ADDRESSEE UNKNOWN
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:44pm

• DELIVERED
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 20, 2019
• 03:09am

• REMINDER TO SCHEDULE REDELIVERY
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 10:53am

• AVAILABLE FOR PICKUP
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 07:23am

• ARRIVAL AT UNIT
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 06:06am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• CAYEY, 00737

• Apr 15, 2019
• 05:08am

• ARRIVE USPS FACILITY
• CAYEY, 00737

• Apr 15, 2019
• 04:23am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 15, 2019
• 04:15am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 14, 2019
• 18:46pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 14, 2019
• 00:00am

• In Transit, Arriving On Time
•  

• Apr 13, 2019
• 20:34pm

• Arrived at USPS Regional Origin Facility

• Apr 13, 2019
• 19:19pm

• Accepted at USPS Origin Facility

• Apr 13, 2019
• 08:00am PDT

What triggered my 'hurry up' here was this:

- Four days ago the claim was filed. I immediately replied letting them know what tracking stated had occurred, planted the tracking number into the message, and asked them to re-confirm their address so I could re-attempt delivery

- Yesterday I received an email from eBay saying I had until today (5/10) to work this out with the buyer

- So far, no response from the buyer, so what more can I do to 'work it out'?

The CSR indicated this will remain open through June 6, so why did I receive a message from eBay yesterday giving me today's date as being important?

The CSR offered to close the claim but indicated they would still be able to leave feedback. They said if I got negative feedback that pertained to an INR eBay would remove it if I contacted them. I asked what they would do if the feedback simply said, "Terrible seller" or something like that and they indicated that could not be removed if it did not specifically pertain to non-receipt.

The CSR said I could refund, but if the buyer knew their way around the system they could in fact still leave feedback even though the option would be grayed out in one area. They said if they attempted to access feedbacking capability through a specific channel that in fact, the ability to leave feedback would remain. Also, there was not great clarity about whether me sending a refund would trigger a defect *or* if I would get Paypal fees back (I read something here that led me to believe Paypal keeps fees when refunds are given these days because they consider that they did the work for you and should get paid even if you refund).

The CSR told me that there is in fact nothing magical about today since I responded four days ago, and they recommended that I let the claim stay open and contact the buyer through my "Sold" page rather than through the claim details in case my earlier message went through as Spam on their end.  I did that. Let them know I had responded to their claim, pasted my prior message, and  asked that they respond asap so we can resolve the issue.

<SIGH>

NOT worth the amount of money involved here EXCEPT insofar as my seller reputation and defects are impacted. So frustrating.

[myboardid]

I don't think this had anything to do with the third party from whom you purchased the item.  The buyer simply refused the package.  Put the tracking number into the case, and then call eBay to have the case closed in your favor.  Do not replace the item.  Do not refund the money.  You have already provided the maximum amount of customer service you could do without losing money, and this situation is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility. 

[mam98031]

---

@wowitsdark wrote:

Thanks, all.

I just spent what ended up being a useless hour and a half on the phone trying to get some resolution.   

For some reason unknown to me or to the CSR, when I try to input the tracking number into the claim it won't let it submit and gives an 'invalid tracking number' error. When you go to USPS, however, it tracks just fine and shows the following (I've masked the sending zip/info below):

• Apr 25, 2019
• 06:41am

• ARRIVAL AT UNIT
• [Return destination]

• Apr 25, 2019
• 02:12am

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• [Return destination]

• Apr 23, 2019
• 19:18pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 23, 2019
• 16:57pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:55pm

• RETURN TO SENDER PROCESSED
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:53pm

• ADDRESSEE UNKNOWN
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 23, 2019
• 12:44pm

• DELIVERED
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 20, 2019
• 03:09am

• REMINDER TO SCHEDULE REDELIVERY
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 10:53am

• AVAILABLE FOR PICKUP
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 07:23am

• ARRIVAL AT UNIT
• AIBONITO, 00705

• Apr 15, 2019
• 06:06am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• CAYEY, 00737

• Apr 15, 2019
• 05:08am

• ARRIVE USPS FACILITY
• CAYEY, 00737

• Apr 15, 2019
• 04:23am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 15, 2019
• 04:15am

• DEPART USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 14, 2019
• 18:46pm

• PROCESSED THROUGH USPS FACILITY
• SAN JUAN, 00936

• Apr 14, 2019
• 00:00am

• In Transit, Arriving On Time
•  

• Apr 13, 2019
• 20:34pm

• Arrived at USPS Regional Origin Facility

• Apr 13, 2019
• 19:19pm

• Accepted at USPS Origin Facility

• Apr 13, 2019
• 08:00am PDT

What triggered my 'hurry up' here was this:

- Four days ago the claim was filed. I immediately replied letting them know what tracking stated had occurred, planted the tracking number into the message, and asked them to re-confirm their address so I could re-attempt delivery

- Yesterday I received an email from eBay saying I had until today (5/10) to work this out with the buyer

- So far, no response from the buyer, so what more can I do to 'work it out'?

The CSR indicated this will remain open through June 6, so why did I receive a message from eBay yesterday giving me today's date as being important?

The CSR offered to close the claim but indicated they would still be able to leave feedback. They said if I got negative feedback that pertained to an INR eBay would remove it if I contacted them. I asked what they would do if the feedback simply said, "Terrible seller" or something like that and they indicated that could not be removed if it did not specifically pertain to non-receipt.

The CSR said I could refund, but if the buyer knew their way around the system they could in fact still leave feedback even though the option would be grayed out in one area. They said if they attempted to access feedbacking capability through a specific channel that in fact, the ability to leave feedback would remain. Also, there was not great clarity about whether me sending a refund would trigger a defect *or* if I would get Paypal fees back (I read something here that led me to believe Paypal keeps fees when refunds are given these days because they consider that they did the work for you and should get paid even if you refund).

The CSR told me that there is in fact nothing magical about today since I responded four days ago, and they recommended that I let the claim stay open and contact the buyer through my "Sold" page rather than through the claim details in case my earlier message went through as Spam on their end.  I did that. Let them know I had responded to their claim, pasted my prior message, and  asked that they respond asap so we can resolve the issue.

<SIGH>

NOT worth the amount of money involved here EXCEPT insofar as my seller reputation and defects are impacted. So frustrating.

---

Lets get some help for you as this has appeared to have gotten overly complicated for some reason.

tyler@ebay 

@Anonymous 

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

or refund the item cost and not the shipping.

[myboardid]

Believe the emails first, CS reps will tell you anything to get you off the phone.  Do NOT believe them. 

Call again and get the case closed in your favor.  There is no reason to keep it open since the buyer already refused the package. 

There is nothing you can do to prevent the buyer from leaving feedback.  He can do as he pleases.  Getting the case closed will prevent any defect from happening. 

[reallynicestamps]

Enter your seller's delivery confirmation number in the Dispute.

It is my understanding that the attempt to deliver, and the note from USPS(?) is enough for eBay to consider the item delivered.

The buyer is required to have a secure address for the receipt of the parcel.

That being said, when you get the parcel back in a month or so (return mail is not a priority) you can go to the Paypal payment and refund.

Personally I would only refund the cost of the item less any fees the carrier may charge you for the return shipping.

[mam98031]

---

@reallynicestamps wrote:

Enter your seller's delivery confirmation number in the Dispute.

It is my understanding that the attempt to deliver, and the note from USPS(?) is enough for eBay to consider the item delivered.

The buyer is required to have a secure address for the receipt of the parcel.

That being said, when you get the parcel back in a month or so (return mail is not a priority) you can go to the Paypal payment and refund.

Personally I would only refund the cost of the item less any fees the carrier may charge you for the return shipping.

---

@reallynicestamps 

The OP has stated a few times that the claim will not allow them to enter the tracking number.

[Anonymous]

---

@wowitsdark wrote:

I've sold thousands of items over the years and I believe this is the first case I've had opened against me.  There are several firsts associated with this transaction, actually...

I sold a DVD set, new and unopened. It had been perpetually listed for months, and when it sold, I could not locate it. Absolutely no clue where it went (first time in 21 years of selling I've ever lost something I sold). Gave up looking and simply purchased one from another seller to have drop-shipped (so to speak) to my Puerto Rican buyer.  It was about a $15 sale and the one I purchased to replace it was about the same price.

I inputted my buyer's shipping info and reached out to the seller to make sure they saw that the shipping info was different than my own. They did and were happy to accommodate.  I received a tracking number and inputted it into my selling portal for my buyer.

Three weeks later (this week) my buyer opened a claim saying it was not received. At about the same time I had a message from my seller saying they received it back in the mail.  I tracked the package, and it appears it made it to their town, a notice to pick it up was left, they apparently attempted to pick it up, and then they sent it back to the seller unopened, return to sender.

I responded to the case with a message saying they should look at the tracking and see that a delivery attempt was made and that it was returned. I also said I'd definitely work with them to make sure they received it, and asked them to verify that they had given me the correct address.  and... I've not heard a word back from them.

Today I got an email from eBay saying I have until tomorrow to work it out with my buyer.

How should I proceed?

---

Hi @wowitsdark, I've gotten this situation reported to ensure there is no site issue that needs to be addressed. When our site indicates that a tracking number has already been used, it means that the tracking number has already been uploaded to another transaction. This is purely conjecture, but it could have been that another seller mistyped the tracking number they had and that resulted in your tracking being seen as already uploaded. Either way, you are still covered in the item not received request and we can review any related feedback if concerns should arise.

I do want to clarify, the date you were given to respond by would be the earliest date that eBay can be asked to step in. While the request will stay open for longer if neither party takes action, eBay can be asked to make a decision on a case after three business days have passed.