Buyer wont return a wrong item that was sent

[pzdamus]

Hi Everybody,

I am a very infrequent seller on ebay and recently had a buyer who i sent a wrong item to.  AFter being notified of the wrong item being sent, I sent out the correct item without requesting a return request. I didnt know that return requests had to be initiated before the correct item could be sent.  Buyer has since got MIA since receiving the correct item.  Because i didnt have the buyer enter a return request ebay has said that they cannot do anything to assist me.  Mulitiple calls to ebay support and emails to the buyer have resulted in nothing but stress and frustration because i feel that ebay should be doing more for me then basically telling to enter a IC3/FBI claim.  The shipping labels clearly show 2 packages being sent out from me and the ebay messages clearly show that the buyer disappeared after receiving the item. 

I would love to hear back from anyone who could provide any additional information or suggestions.  I feel that the buyer is protected with multiple levels but the seller has to depend on specific scenarios for them to be protected.  I was told my mistake was that i didnt wait for the return to arrive before sending out the correct item.  Because i have never had this situation arise in the past, i sent it out thinking that ebay would clearly see that i sent 2 items out and protect me, at the very least, by charging the buyer for multiple purchases. 

Thanks in advance for the advice and suggestions

-RK

[pzdamus]

So it sounds like I have some possible recourse?  Or is it wishful thinking?

[pzdamus]

I think you are totally right, at least from what the customer service reps are informing me.  Granted these are the same ones who one day tell me I can’t do anything and then the next tell me I have a right to file a IC3 claim.  Who knows what is right at this point

[city*satins]

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@pzdamus wrote:

So it sounds like I have some possible recourse?  Or is it wishful thinking?

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I don't know what recourse you have but I do know that when an order is filled incorrectly, and the wrong item/size/style/color etc is sent - that item is not a GIFT.  

You tried to provide good customer service by sending the correct item without waiting for the incorrect one to be returned to you and there are those who would tell you that requiring the wrong order to be returned FIRST is 'holding the item hostage' and how it's your mistake and you should just suck it up and that if the buyer doesn't return it that's okay because it's actually legally a gift.

None of that is correct.  You are entitled to require the return of the item first, and that's what the point is of the eBay process for performing exchanges and returns of incorrect merchandise.  Unfortunately, when a seller goes it alone, the risk is that the seller will end up out of pocket because the wrong item doesn't get returned and eBay has no way to compel the buyer to return it.

The argument that the seller's original error is the precipitating cause that makes all downstream losses automatically the seller's just desserts is incorrect in my opinion.  While a buyer may not set out to be dishonest, there are some buyers who are opportunistic and who when faced with an unexpected chance to be unjustly enriched, will take that and not only feel okay about it but will be congratulated by others for being so smart.   Wahoo!  Good for you, sucks for the losing seller! 

This kind of thinking has been shown to work poorly in situations such as employers or banks accidently crediting their accounts with money they aren't owed - the employers and banks can and will claw the $$ back and if it's been spent, the recipient who takes the money as a GIFT and can't or won't repay it is going to jail.   In the merchandise field, I don't know how it turns out but I can assure you that if Ethan Allen delivers the wrong sofa to a customer's house, when they go to deliver the correct one, they are not leaving it there without first picking up the one that was delivered in error.  It didn't magically become a GIFT.  Via the mail - this becomes more difficult to manage.

I don't know what remedy you have other than what you were advised by eBay to do, but even then it might all be empty.  I hate to suggest it, but you might have to ask someone with direct knowledge and experience in this.  If the $$ justify the time and possible fees for legal advice, then that may be what you need to decide.

[missjen831]

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@pzdamus wrote:

I think you are totally right, at least from what the customer service reps are informing me.  Granted these are the same ones who one day tell me I can’t do anything and then the next tell me I have a right to file a IC3 claim.  Who knows what is right at this point

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As far as eBay is concerned, you can’t do anything. All you did was send the buyer the correct item. eBay cannot do anything. They don’t owe you compensation (and i am not saying you think they do!), they aren’t obligated take financial responsibility for your loss. They can’t make the buyer send the wrong item back. So in that respect there’s nothing you can do. eBay can’t do anything except possibility ask the buyer to send it back. It’s now a civil matter between you and the buyer. Small claims court is really the only option. 

[pzdamus]

City Satins thanks sooooooo much for that explanation.  Something about this whole situation and the gifting didnt seem or appear right to me.  I know I have been in situations with even amazon, where a product was shipped accidently and i was obligated to send it back, obviously with free shipping in a timely manner, otherwise i would have been charged for it.   And you are totally accurate when you say that some buyers are opportunistic in how they deal with sellers. 

This situation is more peculiar in that there are so many red flags in terms of who the package was shipped to and where it was shipped to.  Both of which didnt match anything on the buyers profile.  I understand that ebay is not responsible for scammers who beat the system but there has to be some options for buyers who are taking advantage of sellers with clear profiles which should raise red flags. 

Again thanks for the information and taking time to explain it so throughly.

[mountainmommie]

I'm sure nobody can beat you up as much as you've beaten yourself up. Nobody wants to take a loss. And rest assured, you could have done everything legit and still come up short. You made a mistake and seldom in life do we walk away consequence-less. But know one thing -- regardless of your mistake it does not condone the unethical behavior of your buyer. A gift? A gift without the giver is bare. 

[castlemagicmemories]

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@pzdamus wrote:

I totally understand....didnt mean to come off as blaming ebay or the buyer at all.  I know it was 100% my mistake.  What is frustrating in all of this, are the differing information i am receiving from ebay.  One day I speak with a representative who tells me that there is nothing that can be done.  Then the next representative i speak to tells me i can open a case and to give it 48 hours and call them back to proceed with a police report.  Then after 48 hours i call back and am told that I have to file a claim with the FBI.  All this information is not only conflicting but also confusing and overwhelming.  Then i put it on the board and basically told that there is nothing that can be done cause the buyer is allowed to keep whatever item is sent to them by mistake. 

I said to stay off of ebay cause clearly i wasnt infromed enough to know how it works, not blaming ebay at all for the mistake.

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My apologies.  I'm so sorry I misunderstood what you were saying there.  I did not know that you had spoken to multiple Ebay reps on this.  Of course you are confused and overwhelmed.  I am just so sorry this has been so hard on you and I apologize for what you have been through.  But I hope you don't give up on Ebay~many sell successfully here, and you can learn by reading this Board~that's what many do and have done.  The mistake you made is an easy one to make and there have been MANY others through the years who have done the same thing.  It's just sad because not every buyer will cooperate.  

I'm a buyer and I bought from a new seller who didn't have her Paypal set up, although the listing said she took Paypal, so I couldn't pay and told her why.  She was so mortified she just sent the doll to me.  I was astonished and since she had her PP set up by then, I paid her, but I told her, never send out anything again without getting paid because not everyone will do the right thing and pay you.  This was not a ten dollar doll, but an expensive one.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@city*satins wrote:

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@tiramisu41 wrote:

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@pzdamus wrote:

Is it not theft?  I mean on some level it has to be, right?

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No, @pzdamus.   According to the FTC, if you receive merchandise you didn't order or pay for, you don't have to return nor pay for it.  It's considered a gift.

See: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

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That is intended to cover unsolicited merchandise.  Not order errors.

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@city*satins wrote:

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@tiramisu41 wrote:

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@pzdamus wrote:

Is it not theft?  I mean on some level it has to be, right?

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No, @pzdamus.   According to the FTC, if you receive merchandise you didn't order or pay for, you don't have to return nor pay for it.  It's considered a gift.

See: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise

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That is intended to cover unsolicited merchandise.  Not order errors.

I had it wrong.  I equated sending the wrong thing with it being unsolicited because the buyer didn't ask to get the wrong thing, if that makes sense.

[city*satins]

Yes, I understand!  🙂

[auctionpet]

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@pzdamus wrote:

No i didnt demand anything.  I actually had no clue how the return process worked.  Only after some research did i find out.  I asked him to create the return request so the label would be on my dime and not his. 

The reason i sent them out without researching how it worked is cause he stated that it was a present for his nephew whos bday had passed and he didnt have a present for him and for whatever reason the 1-3 day priority mail took a week or so to get to him.  So in my mind it was going to be a good 2 weeks for him to get the correct item. 

I didnt threaten the IC3 claim until 14 days of no communciation with the buyer.  I didnt even know about the IC3 possability until this past friday.  I reached out cordially a number of times over the past 2 weeks and got absoultely no response.  eBay reached out twice, once by email and another by phone and they as well got no response.

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Sorry, but you did say "  I have sent return instructions on how to generate the label himself but not send him the label. "  You never stated here you asked him to create a return request.

I don't mean to beat you up on this. It's just that messaged communication can be misconstrued as it lacks the tone and delivery felt with verbal. Ebay can be a very confusing place to sell, even often for those seasoned sellers, as they keep changing policy and even then often don't follow it.

You may want to try one last ditch attempt with the buyer asking them if they'd kindly return the shoes and tell them your emailing a shipping label or ask them if they'd oblige. (Maybe someone here can tell you how that would be done via paypal.) If they don't use it, you can cancel the label after 4 days and file for your monies back with USPS via the purchase page. Apologize to the buyer stating you were having a bad week and didn't mean to come off abrasive, but the shoes were very expensive and you were counting on their honesty to return them as you can't afford the loss, which is why you sent the correct pair before receiving them back. You hope the present was well received!

[auctionpet]

@city*satins
Very well spoken.

[castlemagicmemories]

I had that happen another time as well.  I was the runner up in an auction and asked the seller to let me know if the winning bidder did not pay.  The winning bidder did, but didn't want the item once she got it, and the seller passed on my id that I was interested.  Winner just sent me the figurine set and this was triple digits we are talking about!  I was aghast that someone would send something like that without getting paid.  I paid her upon receipt but told her the same thing, Never send something out without getting paid for it as not everyone will do the right thing by you!  She was very nice but just didn't believe anyone would do that to her.  

[auctionpet]

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@pzdamus wrote:

This situation is more peculiar in that there are so many red flags in terms of who the package was shipped to and where it was shipped to.  Both of which didnt match anything on the buyers profile.  I understand that ebay is not responsible for scammers who beat the system but there has to be some options for buyers who are taking advantage of sellers with clear profiles which should raise red flags.

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That's very interesting. Is it possible the item was sent directly to the invidividual they said it was a Birthday present for! If so, it could be the reason the buyer isn't replying. They don't actually have any of the shoes, nor do they reside near the individual who does. In this case, it complicates things since they would need to be returned by the recipient who wasn't the actual buyer. Buyers are allowed to send things to different addresses. I've done so myself as gifts. You simply set up the secondary addess within your paypal account. I guess the relative is thinking they received 2 gifts!!

[castlemagicmemories]

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@pzdamus wrote:

I can’t wait to be unjustly enriched!!

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  Op, love your sense of humor!  I'd take a number in that line, too!

[castlemagicmemories]

I have always said, there are three types of people.

Honest.

Marginally honest.

Dishonest.

Honest people will see a mistake for what it is, and correct it.  They may give back money, return something, etc.  They need no prompting to do the right thing.

Marginally honest.  These ae the people who will, when confronted, make a situation right, but not if they are not approached.  So if you find an error and ask them about it, they will comply.

Dishonest.  They think oh, well, I didn't make the mistake or do this~you did.  Not my fault or my responsibility.