Buyer refunded before item even reached their country

[unique_watch_japan]

Hi everyone,

I think I know where this is going but I'll tell you about it anyway.

I sold a watch to Italy and sent it EMS from Japan. Usually about a week but now very limited flights to and from and I suspect it was trans shipped with two or more airlines. Long story short, about two week later than expected. The buyer opened a non delivery claim. I wrote him twice. Explained the situation. Asked for his patience. Also offered to refund his shipping after it arrived. 

Usually there's no information until the watch reaches the country. Then I'll get an EMS update. So far not yet. I suspect it will arrive this or next week.

Ebay wrote to say today it has been asked to step in. Two minutes later, it issued a full refund including shipping.  I have appealed but....

I'm under the impression I won't get back any fees.  I asked about this earlier and Ebay Ai said no worries. As long as its in transit they won't refund......wrong.

I wrote the buyer and asked him not to accept the watch. It will then just be returned to me. That will be a great outcome if it happens.  We'll see.

Do I have any options at this point?  Happy to hear any advice. I suspect I will eat this full cost and already have blocked further shipments to Italy for the time being.

Cheers,

[bonanza125]

You already know the outcome so what I am going to say is pretty much what you are expected to hear. You have no recourse through Ebay. The only recourse you have is through court. Unfortunately in your situation that will probably be impossible and expensive. You basically lost the item and the money. This is all part of business on Ebay. I hope that the watch wasn't worth a lot. It is always recommended not to list expensive items on Ebay cause of the risk of losing that item. As a business just write it off as a loss.

[fbusoni]

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@unique_watch_japan wrote:

Do I have any options at this point?  Happy to hear any advice. I suspect I will eat this full cost and already have blocked further shipments to Italy for the time being.

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@unique_watch_japan 

This sort of story is painful to read.   Sorry this happened to you.

I wonder if there is some way to know if flights to overseas destinations are being delayed beyond what is regarded as normal.

Then factor that information into your business policies (where you can block those destinations -- along with the dozens of others that do not have a functioning, corruption-free postal system).  

I think that this sort of preemptive action is about all you can do when shipping internationally (unless you are in the eIS program).

PS:  If after a decent interval you do not hear back from the buyer, I'd block the buyer as well, lest he think he can obtain from you another free watch.

[unique_watch_japan]

Thanks for your reply. I've only recently sold to Italy.  But looking the the EMS page now in Japan it does mention increased customs scrutiny and delays.  I understand the buyers frustration but thought we could wait a bit longer to see if it arrives.  The good news is if it isn't delivered I can apply for an insurance refund for the full amount. 

Another point is AI.  My first advice was not to worry and that Ebay wouldn't refund until it was determined not to have arrived.  Since I provided tracking I thought that would be ok. AI was wrong and also wrong about the refund policy. It sounds as if I'd issued a refund myself (which I wan't planning since I thought it would show up in the next week or so as has happened several times before) I wouldn't be charged Ebay fees. Now I learn that Ebay won't offer them back since they had to get involved. Lol, which, no doubt means AI issued the refund and took everything. 

Thanks for your suggestions. I do plan to review the odd destination from now to be sure I can sell safely.

Cheers

[unique_watch_japan]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  Yes, I will move on. Out of a couple of hundred sales, this is the first refund I've ever given. I'd read similar stories and thought I'd skate through.  Caught up with me. Lol.  Luckily, the watch wasn't that expensive. I agree about costly items. Usually, my watches are rare vintage but not overly expensive. Not a lot of interest from the army of scammers out there. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this will be the last.  Cheers. 

[dbfolks166mt]

You already know the outcome so what I am going to say is pretty much what you are expected to hear. You have no recourse through Ebay. The only recourse you have is through court. Unfortunately in your situation that will probably be impossible and expensive. You basically lost the item and the money. This is all part of business on Ebay. I hope that the watch wasn't worth a lot. It is always recommended not to list expensive items on Ebay cause of the risk of losing that item. As a business just write it off as a loss.

     Court would be even more complex by the fact that the seller is in Japan and the buyer is in Italy. You never loose both the item and the money what you loose is the value of the item and the selling costs. What you can write off are those expenses. 

[dbfolks166mt · Accepted solution]

     This is mostly a US seller forum so I am not all that familiar with EMS but I am assuming that is the shipping/carrier service out of Japan. Never let eBay get involved in any type of claim. Customer support is useless these days and they will tell you what you want to hear to get you off the phone even if that means lying to you. 

     I am not sure what the EMS tracking shows since I am not familiar with the service or how long after the expected delivery date eBay provided to the buyer that the buyer waited before they opened the INR. You probably should have responded to the INR and uploaded the available tracking information. At the same, depending on EMS's timelines, you should have opened a claim with EMS for the lost package. 

     So many thing can cause international shipments to be delayed including available transport, the customs processing and the local delivery service. Fortunate that the item was not all that expensive. Not familiar with your income tax process in Japan but in the US the loss is something that would have been written off the gross revenue amount. 

[mr_lincoln]

Hi @unique_watch_japan 

I know one thing that will help you and that is to BLOCK Italy because they have one of THE worst postal services in the world.  I sold a Zippo lighter to a customer there once (US to Italy).  It arrived in Italy just fine but after a week had not moved.  I messaged my customer and they messaged back that they have been watching the tracking but due to how bad their system is they would not expect to see it for 2-3 weeks after in arrives in their country.  They could have filed an INR claim but never did and it took about 2 1/2 weeks to get to them ... less than a 3 hour drive from where it entered Italy.

If you keep shipping there don't be surprised if this happens again.

[unique_watch_japan]

Yes, thanks for that. I'd hear similar years ago but got two or three orders through until this one. I've learned my lesson. You had a great customer too. This guy ignored every message (in Italian) complained loudly when opening a inquiry to Ebay, and has still never responded. We'll await my first bad feedback after 25 years. Cheers mate. 

[mr_lincoln]

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@unique_watch_japan wrote:

Yes, thanks for that. I'd hear similar years ago but got two or three orders through until this one. I've learned my lesson. You had a great customer too. This guy ignored every message (in Italian) complained loudly when opening a inquiry to Ebay, and has still never responded. We'll await my first bad feedback after 25 years. Cheers mate. 

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@unique_watch_japan 

eBay should NEVER allow ANY Feedback related to late delivery if a Seller ships within their Handling time.  That is one of the deficiencies of the Feedback system, slapping a Seller with bad Feedback because a 3rd party, one that neither eBay or the Seller has any control over, screws up the deal.

[unique_watch_japan]

Yes, nothing yet. They denied my appeal. No surprise. Said it's the sellers responsibility to assure timely delivery. Completely out of my hands. I will start a claim with my post office. They warned that Italy could be two to three months delivery time! Wow.

Today I shipped to Canada and after a four week postal strike. I fear the worse. Not to mention two watches, sent together to Italy two weeks ago. Nice guy so I'll hope for his patience. Oh well, life has many lessons left to teach.

Cheers, 

David 

[dbfolks166mt]

Yes, nothing yet. They denied my appeal. No surprise. Said it's the sellers responsibility to assure timely delivery. Completely out of my hands. I will start a claim with my post office. They warned that Italy could be two to three months delivery time! Wow.

Today I shipped to Canada and after a four week postal strike. I fear the worse. Not to mention two watches, sent together to Italy two weeks ago. Nice guy so I'll hope for his patience. Oh well, life has many lessons left to teach.

     At least eBay has some seller protections in place as a result of the Canadian postal strike even though the strike is over. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Canada-Post-Strike-Update/ba-p/34781531 

[unique_watch_japan]

Thanks for the comments. I've never had a claim with ebay before now. I lost my case. Ai said it's, all OK since it's tracked. It wasn't. Nice note of understanding from ebay Italy. Tough luck and curt no from the USA side. No refund for fees. Seems like giving up and refund would have gotten fees back. Kinda extortion. The buyer just ignored my messages and demanded a refund. He got it. Hopefully he won't steal my watch when it arrives. I can file a claim for the insurance but if it show delivered I'm out of it. Bottom line, done with Italy. Moving on. Cheers. 

[mr_lincoln]

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@unique_watch_japan wrote:

Yes, nothing yet. They denied my appeal. No surprise. Said it's the sellers responsibility to assure timely delivery. Completely out of my hands. I will start a claim with my post office. They warned that Italy could be two to three months delivery time! Wow.

Today I shipped to Canada and after a four week postal strike. I fear the worse. Not to mention two watches, sent together to Italy two weeks ago. Nice guy so I'll hope for his patience. Oh well, life has many lessons left to teach.

Cheers, 

David 

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@unique_watch_japan 

And yes, that is where the eBay system fails completely by NOT going after the carriers more aggressively and forcing losses on them.  Sorry, but it is NOT the Seller's job to transport and deliver packages.  That is where I don't agree with them.