Buyer of expensive item seems certain it will be destroyed in shipping (long)

[coltranefan]

I listed a fairly expensive "high-end" audio component on ebay recently (BIN or best offer). A guy with a zillion good feedbacks made a very good offer that I accepted.

Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc.

(And WHY don't buyers read the TOS?)  So I emailed him back saying some of that, he said OK, send UPS.  And then just a series of dire messages (very polite tho) about UPS not paying off if there is damage. Which I know --I've shipped probably hundreds of delicate items (crystal, china, etc.) over the years. Plus probably dozens of audio components, some keyboard, computers, etc. etc.

The guy is "putting the zap on my head"--making me almost fearful of shipping it, when I never would have been. I mean, I'm always concerned about shipping expensive items, but I do great packing, & have never had a problem as long as the item is shipped properly.

Also, this $1900 audio component has all the original factory packaging, that is the best packing I've ever seen on an audio component. I even took pics of the various stages of packing the double-box with the elaborate packing & sent to him.  His response was more warnings about how UPS won't pay off if damaged, etc.

He just can't seem to believe that the item will survive shipping, or that it's packed well enough. And yet he's SO polite. A friend of mine said, well as long as he gets it OK, things should be fine. But I don't know if he's setting me up to later claim that something's wrong with it? I've had some neurotic buyers, but this guy is creeping me out. I usually ship quickly, but I've been dragging my feet on this--instead of feeling good when I drop it off at UPS, I just think I'm gonna feel really nervous.

I mean, if he's this neurotic now, what can he find to be neurotic about once he get it? The thing is beautiful, but maybe he'll imagine there's damage?

I'm sorry to go on so long, but I've been buying & selling used audio equipment (for my own system) for a very long time, & this is kind of a new one.....

TIA for any advice

[a_c_green]

Well, first of all, be aware that the original factory packaging was for palleted shipping (identical boxes stacked like bricks in a cube and moved by forklift), so the contents were packed for crush resistance (e.g. in case it was the bottom brick in the stack), but not impact resistance, since they would not be travelling individually, tumbling off conveyor belts and such.

Therefore your outer box needs to provide the cushioning that the inner box does not. You should have at least a couple layers of large-cell bubblewrap around all sides, or an equally thick surrounding of styrofoam popcorn (no crushed newspaper), so that the inner box will stay suspended within the outer box, and not sink down to the bottom as the contents settle en route. 

All that aside, if you're dealiing with a long-term buyer, he's probably got some horror stories and nasty experiences under his belt, and just wants to avoid another one. While his detailed emails are obviously getting a little annoying, I don't think he's necessarily setting you up for a fake damage claim later on; he's more likely hoping to avoid a real one. Just do your best.

[lex-talon]

I would think that the buyer has had items arrived damaged and is fearful it might again. Don't worry about it, you've done your part. But then again, high-end electronics can be risky and are targets for scammers. 

[castlemagicmemories]

You are between a rock and a hard place.

Buyer is clearly rattling you.  Totally up to you...but if your gut is uneasy, while buyer may just be trying to avoid a bad experience, you could email him and explain that you understand he is  understandably concerned.  Would you like me to cancel the transaction?

BUT he might say, no, then you are right back where you are now.  But maybe, too, all this concern is because he has buyer's remorse and is looking for a way out.  I don't know.

[papermoneyforme]

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@coltranefan wrote:

I listed a fairly expensive "high-end" audio component on ebay recently (BIN or best offer). A guy with a zillion good feedbacks made a very good offer that I accepted.

Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc.

(And WHY don't buyers read the TOS?)  So I emailed him back saying some of that, he said OK, send UPS.  And then just a series of dire messages (very polite tho) about UPS not paying off if there is damage. Which I know --I've shipped probably hundreds of delicate items (crystal, china, etc.) over the years. Plus probably dozens of audio components, some keyboard, computers, etc. etc.

The guy is "putting the zap on my head"--making me almost fearful of shipping it, when I never would have been. I mean, I'm always concerned about shipping expensive items, but I do great packing, & have never had a problem as long as the item is shipped properly.

Also, this $1900 audio component has all the original factory packaging, that is the best packing I've ever seen on an audio component. I even took pics of the various stages of packing the double-box with the elaborate packing & sent to him.  His response was more warnings about how UPS won't pay off if damaged, etc.

He just can't seem to believe that the item will survive shipping, or that it's packed well enough. And yet he's SO polite. A friend of mine said, well as long as he gets it OK, things should be fine. But I don't know if he's setting me up to later claim that something's wrong with it? I've had some neurotic buyers, but this guy is creeping me out. I usually ship quickly, but I've been dragging my feet on this--instead of feeling good when I drop it off at UPS, I just think I'm gonna feel really nervous.

I mean, if he's this neurotic now, what can he find to be neurotic about once he get it? The thing is beautiful, but maybe he'll imagine there's damage?

I'm sorry to go on so long, but I've been buying & selling used audio equipment (for my own system) for a very long time, & this is kind of a new one.....

TIA for any advice

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Is it possible to put private insurance on it for your own protection.

[retrose1]

OP, you have low feedback and less than 10 selling feedback for the year and are listing a very high dollar item, that is easily damaged in one of the top ten scam categories ebay has.  It would be a cold day in Hades before I would have listed that item on ebay, let alone ship it - no matter what company I used to ship and how well they have treated me in the past.

Did you know that buyers can have zillions of good feedbacks - because sellers can NOT LEAVE THEM NEGS!!!!!!  Check and see if they leave feedback for sellers.

You buyer is letting you know what is going to happen - no matter what.  If they have a zillion feedbacks, they know that ebay has got their back, so it doesn't matter how you ship, it arrives broke (or they claim it arrives broke) ebay will see to it that they get their money back and you, the seller will be out the item and money.

I would be willing to bet that the buyer is hinting that they have a FedEx account which you could use to ship, which is an old scam.  But even if they aren't doing that, there are so many other ways to scam you.

If I were you, I would tell the buyer that since they are so paranoid about the shipping, you will just cancel the transaction.  Take the minor hit on your account and pay the fees, it will be worth it for your piece of mind.  And relist it only after you have as much selling feedback as the dollar value of the item you want to list.

[coltranefan]

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@a_c_green wrote:

Well, first of all, be aware that the original factory packaging was for palleted shipping (identical boxes stacked like bricks in a cube and moved by forklift), so the contents were packed for crush resistance (e.g. in case it was the bottom brick in the stack), but not impact resistance, since they would not be travelling individually, tumbling off conveyor belts and such.

Therefore your outer box needs to provide the cushioning that the inner box does not. You should have at least a couple layers of large-cell bubblewrap around all sides, or an equally thick surrounding of styrofoam popcorn (no crushed newspaper), so that the inner box will stay suspended within the outer box, and not sink down to the bottom as the contents settle en route. 

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I *think* that what you're saying about "palleted shipping" is way more for mass market items, like cheap audio stuff that's shipped to Best Buy & such. This was a $4K item new, that was sold by "high-end" audio dealers. The mfg's don't ship pallets of them to each dealer--I'm pretty sure they design the boxes to ship individually.

This is a Tube Preamp that ships in 2 boxes. The main part of the preamp--it is double-boxed. Only the inner box also has this complicated "box system" inside it that's almost like a "double-box" in itself. The 2nd box holds the power supply--like a 9 lb. black "brick". Not "double-boxed", but a HD box with great packing. They'd almost have to be run over by the UPS truck to be damaged, or dropped off a 10 story bldg.

I am curious about someone (like my buyer) who's had so many shipping disasters & receiving damaged items? I've been at this (audio) hobby for decades, bought & sold tons of components, & so far 2 shipping mishaps, when the shipper didn't have the orig box & also used ridiculously poor packing.

[siayan]

If you came here to get a good feeling about this I don't think it will happen. My suggestion would be "ship insure" added. They seem to work quickly on claims but this takes you to a high level of a claim.

The problem is if they open a claim you have 4 (??) days to respond to accept or have eBay step in. This is not tenough time to get a USPS claim resolved, not sure about UPS. If they do have a problem try to keep them from opening a claim until you try to resolve it. 

This is a gut call for you to decide. 

[coltranefan]

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@retrose1 wrote:

............it would be a cold day in Hades before I would have listed that item on ebay, let alone ship it - no matter what company I used to ship and how well they have treated me in the past.

You buyer is letting you know what is going to happen - no matter what.  If they have a zillion feedbacks, they know that ebay has got their back, so it doesn't matter how you ship, it arrives broke (or they claim it arrives broke) ebay will see to it that they get their money back and you, the seller will be out the item and money.

If I were you, I would tell the buyer that since they are so paranoid about the shipping, you will just cancel the transaction.  Take the minor hit on your account and pay the fees, it will be worth it for your piece of mind.  And relist it only after you have as much selling feedback as the dollar value of the item you want to list.

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Everything you said is along the lines of what I've been thinking since the buyer started all this. If he's this much of a PITA now; what's he going to be like once he gets the item? (You stated it in a much more detailed way tho). What if, in a few weeks, he suddenly decides he doesn't like the way it sounds, or one $15 tube goes bad, or, or, or, & files a claim. Or, I've just been having this bad feeling since the beginning, like: this is not adding up, I sense something odd, or even bad.

Whether to cancel the transaction, or just not ship, & let him file an item not received claim, I'm not sure. I'm just tired of him putting this cloud over my head about shipping this. It'll be worth the hit, inc. a neg. maybe, to just move on. I'd sell it for a few hundred $$ less locally on *C*L* if need be.

Thanks everyone, all exc. comments......

[discountme]

We are all given intuition for a reason. I personally would cancel it and move on. In my other businesses, I have found that when a customer has an issue before anything has transpired, they become a problem later. MO

[a_c_green]

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coltranefan wrote: 
I *think* that what you're saying about "palleted shipping" is way more for mass market items, like cheap audio stuff that's shipped to Best Buy & such. This was a $4K item new, that was sold by "high-end" audio dealers. The mfg's don't ship pallets of them to each dealer--I'm pretty sure they design the boxes to ship individually.

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Well, that's easily determined: is the packaging designed for rigidity or cushioning? Would you feel okay with dropping it one foot onto a hard surface? How about two feet? And so on. What you need for shipping now is cushioning, because the shipping between you and the buyer is going to entail conveyor belts, drops of unknown height, rough handling by workers who don't know or care what's in the package, etc. I'm just saying that your current packaging will need to withstand impacts without transferring the shock to the item inside.

I think if you had a low-feedback buyer with minimal correspondence, you might have some risk of a fake insurance claim later on, but I don't see the same concern with a long-time buyer who's sending you reams of concerns about safe packaging.

Putting it another way: in past years I did a lot of buying, restoration and resale of vintage commercial clocks and lighted signs. I bought restoration projects in all kinds of condition, but the one thing that most of them had in common was that they were sold by estate sale pickers and other folks who did not ship those kinds of items very often, and thus these people had no idea how to pack them safely. It was a miracle that some of them arrived at my place in one piece. Thus I can see where your buyer is coming from here, and I think if your items arrive safely, he'll be fine with them.

[barneyarne]

For and extra 10.60 you can get special handling through USPS. Then you don't have to worry about it being thrown or dropped. It will be handed off from postal worker to postal worker at different centers. I have used it several times and have been pleased on how items arrived.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@barneyarne wrote:

For and extra 10.60 you can get special handling through USPS. Then you don't have to worry about it being thrown or dropped. It will be handed off from postal worker to postal worker at different centers. I have used it several times and have been pleased on how items arrived.

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Thanks for posting this; this is definitely interesting!!

[nawlinsron2]

I'm totally loss...you can't INSURE a package with UPS?
Or is there a limit?

[gracieallen01]

Just curious here.

Is there some reason why, when the buyer requested, you didn't calculate shipping by FedEx and tell them what the extra shipping would cost and let them decide?

I mean besides your discount and not being out of the way, or whatever, to ship UPS?

Perhaps you have been happy with UPS, but not everybody has been.  UPS delivered a very expensive item I bought to a different address - one they got out of the phone book for a person with the same last name and initials.  That was the last time I used UPS (15 years ago) unless someone specifically requests it.