Buyer of expensive item seems certain it will be destroyed in shipping (long)

[coltranefan]

I listed a fairly expensive "high-end" audio component on ebay recently (BIN or best offer). A guy with a zillion good feedbacks made a very good offer that I accepted.

Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc.

(And WHY don't buyers read the TOS?)  So I emailed him back saying some of that, he said OK, send UPS.  And then just a series of dire messages (very polite tho) about UPS not paying off if there is damage. Which I know --I've shipped probably hundreds of delicate items (crystal, china, etc.) over the years. Plus probably dozens of audio components, some keyboard, computers, etc. etc.

The guy is "putting the zap on my head"--making me almost fearful of shipping it, when I never would have been. I mean, I'm always concerned about shipping expensive items, but I do great packing, & have never had a problem as long as the item is shipped properly.

Also, this $1900 audio component has all the original factory packaging, that is the best packing I've ever seen on an audio component. I even took pics of the various stages of packing the double-box with the elaborate packing & sent to him.  His response was more warnings about how UPS won't pay off if damaged, etc.

He just can't seem to believe that the item will survive shipping, or that it's packed well enough. And yet he's SO polite. A friend of mine said, well as long as he gets it OK, things should be fine. But I don't know if he's setting me up to later claim that something's wrong with it? I've had some neurotic buyers, but this guy is creeping me out. I usually ship quickly, but I've been dragging my feet on this--instead of feeling good when I drop it off at UPS, I just think I'm gonna feel really nervous.

I mean, if he's this neurotic now, what can he find to be neurotic about once he get it? The thing is beautiful, but maybe he'll imagine there's damage?

I'm sorry to go on so long, but I've been buying & selling used audio equipment (for my own system) for a very long time, & this is kind of a new one.....

TIA for any advice

[a_c_green]

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coltranefan wrote: 
Altho if he is a scammer, he wouldn't do that. I'm about 50/50 as to whether he's an outright scammer, or will just nit-pick the pre-amp to death after he gets it & try to return it.

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From what you've told us, he's been buying similar items for a long time, and if he is the nightmare that you are becoming convinced he will be, I would expect to see some hint of it in either the feedback left for him (regardless of only Positive feedback possible, sellers may be motivated to work in some hints in their comments) or the feedback that he leaves for others.

You can also see the IDs of sellers for whom he's left feedback, so you might want to review what he purchased from them, and ask some of the sellers of items similar to yours about how their experience with him went.

Basically, you're walking yourself into a defect if you can't persuade him to agree to cancel, so you should really explore all options first. Remember that people come here when their sales get into trouble, not when everything goes fine, so it's possible to convince yourself from reading this all day long that nothing ever goes right around here. (My actual non-eBay job is Tech Support, so yes, I do sometimes have to remind myself that not all my customers are having problems, just the few that we're hearing from.)

[mismarymarpl0]

For what it's worth I don't think he was intentionally trying to scam you. However he was going to be unhappy no matter how you packed it, so in this case canceling is probably the right thing to do. Do you have any local market at all for this type item? If so it would be worth trying to sell on Craigslist so you didn't have to deal with the nightmare of shipping

[jonathankirkland]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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From what you've told us, he's been buying similar items for a long time, and if he is the nightmare that you are becoming convinced he will be, I would expect to see some hint of it in either the feedback left for him (regardless of only Positive feedback possible, sellers may be motivated to work in some hints in their comments) or the feedback that he leaves for others.

You can also see the IDs of sellers for whom he's left feedback, so you might want to review what he purchased from them, and ask some of the sellers of items similar to yours about how their experience with him went.

Basically, you're walking yourself into a defect if you can't persuade him to agree to cancel, so you should really explore all options first. Remember that people come here when their sales get into trouble, not when everything goes fine, so it's possible to convince yourself from reading this all day long that nothing ever goes right around here. (My actual non-eBay job is Tech Support, so yes, I do sometimes have to remind myself that not all my customers are having problems, just the few that we're hearing from.)

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Just throwing this out there, but if someone were a "professional" scammer on ebay, they would have any positive feedback with negative words removed since it's a violation.

But a_c is right about one thing, it's more the defect that should concern you than the negative feedback he could possibly leave if you cancel the transaction.

@coltranefan wrote:

I read thru all the responses here a couple of times; it seems like maybe it's 70-80% of people saying don't do it. Which was my feeling even before I posted here. But I'm still not sure what I'm going to say to him. Maybe: what I said above about being ready to ship last week, but he made me so nervous about shipping it I'm not sure how to proceed. And/or; b/c of his concerns, I've ordered a giant box that will hold the 2 original boxes. Which will take much time.

And/or; I have Dr. appt's this week (true--ironically for high Blood Pressure)), and............     I'd like to avoid ticking him off if possible tho. Maybe just tell him he's made me too nervous to ship it (to him), & ask if he'd be willing to get out out of the deal.

If you do decide not to proceed, I would recommend being direct and not making excuses or dragging it out.

Maybe if you are direct and polite and if he is honest he won't fight you on wanting to cancel and you can avoid a defect.

[a_c_green]

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jonathankirkland wrote: 
Just throwing this out there, but if someone were a "professional" scammer on ebay, they would have any positive feedback with negative words removed since it's a violation.

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That's true, but I would at least look to see over the past year if there are indeed any comments that sound... less than ideal. A lukewarm comment is not removable; it has to be fairly clear as a violation before CS would yank it. 

I think the other strategy may be more useful: find out what other sellers have to say about him after selling him any similar high-value item.

[jonathankirkland]

The most important thing though I believe is to always go with your GUT.

I went against my gut once recently because I wanted to have faith and I wasn't suspicious enough and you what happened? The buyer opened a request to return the package before even receiving it while it was still en route to them! So I had to spend a lot of time between FedEx & ebay to have the package intercepted and returned to me. This is all still pending.

I have received a few defects recently also before I even learned what they were or that that could happen, which is why I have slowed way down on listing anything new until I can figure out a new, safer path forward.

Anyhow, my point is go with your gut always. Good luck.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

The most important thing though I believe is to always go with your GUT.

I went against my gut once recently because I wanted to have faith and I wasn't suspicious enough and you what happened? The buyer opened a request to return the package before even receiving it while it was still en route to them! So I had to spend a lot of time between FedEx & ebay to have the package intercepted and returned to me. This is all still pending.

I have received a few defects recently also before I even learned what they were or that that could happen, which is why I have slowed way down on listing anything new until I can figure out a new, safer path forward.

Anyhow, my point is go with your gut always. Good luck.

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When I have gone against my gut, it has not worked out well.

[geotouloupos]

From everything i have read here i would vote to cancel the transaction if you do not feel safe enough.

You can explain to buyer the reasons as you have explained here being honest with him and ask him to agree to cancelation. If he insists maybe you can cancel the transaction getting probably a defect but for me the best way is to be honest with him why you don't want to ship. Maybe buyer agrees on it or maybe just he replies  letting you Know why he is so worried. (a bad experience before?). 

You can understand a lot from his reply if you be 100% honest with him explaining your worries and asking him to agree to the cancelation of the transaction.  

[gracieallen01]

You wrote: 

"Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc."

I guess, perhaps, you missed the question I asked about why you didn't just give him a FedEX quote, with the option of letting him pay any difference and let him decide.

Not everybody likes or has had good luck with UPS.

So, why didn't you?

[coltranefan]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

You wrote: 

"Immediately after he paid, the messages began. Wanted fed-ex shipping, when I listed UPS ground as the shipping. I try hard to accommodate buyers, but I've had great success with UPS ground, both as buyer & seller. And have had weird experiences with fed-ex ground (It's a somewhat heavy item, so fed-ex air would be really expensive). Also I have a UPS acct., there's a UPS store 4 miles for drop-off from where I live, etc."

I guess, perhaps, you missed the question I asked about why you didn't just give him a FedEX quote, with the option of letting him pay any difference and let him decide.

Not everybody likes or has had good luck with UPS.

So, why didn't you?

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Well, if he didn't want UPS shipping, why did he buy it w/o asking me beforehand  if I'd ship fed-ex? You can't assume every seller will ship by some other method than they listed. When I buy expensive items on ebay; I ask all those kind of questions before  I bid or buy.

Also I think fed-ex ground is way worse than UPS ground. After all, it's gonna come back on me if the shipping goes bad. 

Also, I asked him after his first email if he'd be too bummed out if I went ahead & sent UPS; & he said OK, fine, ship UPS. Then he started with all of the packing warnings (I also had the factory  packaging clearly stated in the listing), & we went around about that a few times.

Then in one of his later emails, he said:

"You can send UPS. The only fear is that if either box is damaged, they flat will refuse to pay for the damage.. Never fails with them. When you send them the photo, they will say that is should have been double boxed. ........For that matter, Fed Ex is not much better. So, it is the luck of the draw...."

So, after all his talk about how awful UPS is, & at first wanting fed-ex, then he actually says "For that matter, Fed Ex is not much better". This is crazy making!

and, I'd already told  him the item is double boxed--even sent him pics of all the packaging--and yet he didn't seem to believe that, or........what? This is all just too demoralizing, & stressful. I mean, I'll ask sellers of expensive electronics about the packing (before I buy it), but I don't then keep badgering them after I've bought it, questioning the packing over & over, predicting doom with the shipping, etc. 

I'm going to message him now, telling him he's just made me too uncomfortable to ship it.......(or some such, I'm not sure exactly what I'll say, I'll try to finesse him if possible)......

Thanks again people......very helpful......

[bubbleman2010]

My listings are clearly spelled out someone buys something and then wants to play 50 questions I just refund and relist with a note I don't feel comfortable completing this transaction. Have a nice day...  You'll pick up a neg. and a defect,but last time I checked they have little to no value anyhow and the world still revolves on cash....

[bubbleman2010]

UPS and Fedex damage claims should be of no concern to the buyer they are refunded by the seller and its the sellers job to recover the loss from the shipping service buyer has nothing to do with it....

[castlemagicmemories]

Buyer is asking for something that is not in the listing, and should have asked prior to purchase.

Many seller's won't change their shipping method, nor should they have to.

I think problem with buyer's address would fit this situation, but others may weigh in on whether or not this is appropriate.

[jonathankirkland]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

My listings are clearly spelled out someone buys something and then wants to play 50 questions I just refund and relist with a note I don't feel comfortable completing this transaction. Have a nice day...  You'll pick up a neg. and a defect,but last time I checked they have little to no value anyhow and the world still revolves on cash....

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Wait, bubbleman what are you talking about here? I was told if you get just 3 or more defects you could be completely booted out of ebay from selling?!?

I hope you are just referring to an extremely rare case (like once a year or something)?

I know this is a bit off topic and I apologize but this comment completely threw me off of everything I've been told and trying to learn and understand being a new seller here.

[jonathankirkland]

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@coltranefan wrote:

I'm going to message him now, telling him he's just made me too uncomfortable to ship it.......(or some such, I'm not sure exactly what I'll say, I'll try to finesse him if possible)......

Thanks again people......very helpful......

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Perhaps you could try a softer approach at first and simply say:

"You seem very concerned that the item will be damaged during shipping. Would you feel more comfortable if we just cancel the transaction?"

And go by his response from there. I would try not to be too insistent on canceling the order, at least at first, until you can better gauge with this guys angle may possibly be.

[a_c_green]

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jonathankirkland wrote: 
Perhaps you could try a softer approach at first and simply say:

"You seem very concerned that the item will be damaged during shipping. Would you feel more comfortable if we just cancel the transaction?"

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Short, succinct, and to the point. I agree that if the question is to be asked, just ask it; don't beat around the bush with long explanation. At this point, the buyer will certainly understand why you're asking, so I would just get it asked and answered, and see where things go from there.

Given that (if I remember right), the buyer has already asked at least once for a tracking number, then this will be a good way for you to either [do something] or get off the pot.