Buyer intiated chargeback after receipt of item claiming they tried to cancel the sale.

[just_another_garage_sale]

I recently sold a cell phone and the purchase price was just under  $750.  I shipped the item with tracking per paypal policy to prove receipt by the buyer.  Nearly a month later the buyer initiated a chargeback with their financial institution claiming they were charged after trying to cancel the transaction and I now owe over $800 to ebay and paypal after adding in all the fees they are charging me.  There is no correspondence from the buyer to prove they ever tried to cancel the sale. The buyer also kept the phone.  They sent pictures through ebay also to prove receipt of the item.  I've sent abuse reports..  Checking the buyers feedback, they are also still using ebay! 

How and or what can I do?  Ebay and Paypal will not respond to any requests for help!

[koinonia215]

So they didn't open an ebay or PayPal case, but went right to their credit card, correct? I was under the understanding that in cases of a chargeback on PayPal, that as long as the seller had proof of delivery, that even if the chargeback won, the seller would not be liable. Credit cards normally would require the person to return an item and show proof of such before finalizing a chargeback. You may need to share more info so we can better understand what happened. Are you in ebay's managed payments?

[this*old*attic]

Did you use signature confirmation also? That’s required for items $750 and above too.

[just_another_garage_sale]

The buyer went directly to their credit card company.  I received an email from paypal stating there was a dispute and when I signed on I had a negative $735 balance.  Since the total was under $750 there was no signature confirmation.  The buyer did send me pictures though when they requested a refund.  The reason for the refund request was "found less expensive item" and the buyer stated in the note that they tried to cancel the sale, but the item had already shipped.  This happened after they received the item.  I did not receive any request from the buyer to cancel the sale.  Also, the listing clearly stated no returns, and the email from ebay stated that I was not required to issue a refund.  The return request was closed.

I am not in ebay's managed payments.

Over 20 years buying and selling on ebay and I can't even get a call back for help on this matter.  Paypal collections is able to call me though, 6 times a day... That is not an exaggeration.

[fashunu4eeuh]

What did the buyer claim was wrong with the sale? They may have tried to cancel, but that is neither here nor there. They obviously paid for the phone, you had tracking that showed delivery. Since the transaction was under $750, you didn't need signature confirmation tho it sounds like you got that anyway. So there is no dispute that he got the item. So what was wrong with the transaction that he opened a chargeback? Was the phone damaged in transit? Unauthorized use of his account? Did this seller try to return the phone or have any communication with you prior to opening the matter with his credit card company?

Edit: Sorry, my post crossed paths with your above post. 

[fashunu4eeuh]

Okay, I think I am starting to understand what happened. The buyer wanted to return the phone and you denied the return request. So then they went to their credit card company to get their money back. But why wasn't the phone returned to you before their credit card gave them the refund at your expense? What did the pictures show that the buyer sent you? Was there any damage?

[just_another_garage_sale]

Recap:

Item sells on ebay, Paypal shows paid, seller protection eligable, confirmed address and all.

I ship item

Buyer receives item, claims they tried to cancel sale.  They submit request for return, include pictures showing they received the item.  Reason for return request, "Found a better price".

I decline return

Three weeks later, buyer initiates chargeback with credit card company

I see a negative $735 balance in my paypal account and a notice that states the buyer initiated a chargeback, reason "The buyer stated that they previously canceled this recurring payment"

Negative balance then increases to $755 due to fees.

Paypal says through chat, there is nothing they can do, they are not able to cover the transaction with seller protection, the resolution department will contact me with further details.  They never have though.

Ebay says there is nothing they can do, #1 there is an open dispute with paypal, #2 too much time has elapsed.

I did submit a buyer abuse report.

The buyer did not try to return the phone.  They still have it.

[just_another_garage_sale]

Spoiler

There was no damage to the phone.  If there had been damage I could have filed an insurance claim, the return would have been accepted.

[just_another_garage_sale]

There was no damage to the phone.  If there had been damage I could have filed an insurance claim, the return would have been accepted.

I accidentally clicked the spoiler tag in the previous post and have no idea how to get rid of it.

[alcoforever]

I suspect that when you declined the return is where the trouble started.  That told ebay and/or paypal that you didn't want the phone back so paypal just refunded without requiring the phone to be sent back.   Sorry, but I think you have been painted into a corner.

[just_another_garage_sale]

Frankly, when I saw the reason "found a better price" and their note said they tried to cancel the sale but the item had already shipped.  I felt I was being scammed.  At that point I thought either the buyer was going to try to get a refund / negotiate a new price after the sale or send me a box of rocks back.

[mam98031]

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@just_another_garage_sale wrote:

The buyer went directly to their credit card company.  I received an email from paypal stating there was a dispute and when I signed on I had a negative $735 balance.  Since the total was under $750 there was no signature confirmation.  The buyer did send me pictures though when they requested a refund.  The reason for the refund request was "found less expensive item" and the buyer stated in the note that they tried to cancel the sale, but the item had already shipped.  This happened after they received the item.  I did not receive any request from the buyer to cancel the sale.  Also, the listing clearly stated no returns, and the email from ebay stated that I was not required to issue a refund.  The return request was closed.

I am not in ebay's managed payments.

Over 20 years buying and selling on ebay and I can't even get a call back for help on this matter.  Paypal collections is able to call me though, 6 times a day... That is not an exaggeration.

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Wait.  Let me see if I have this correct.

Buyers can't EVER cancel a transaction.  They can request it, but they have no ability to actually cancel a transaction.  Only the seller can do that.

If I have this right, you have a no return policy and the buyer opened a Buyer's Remorse Return request because they found a cheaper price.  Since you have a No return policy, you can decline to take that return.  Is that what you did?

So since they didn't get their way with you on this return request they then went to their CCC and filed a dispute on the amount, which would then in turn be handled through PP since they are the money processor on the transaction.

When PP gets one of these, they put the money on hold in your PP account.  That does NOT mean that they have refunded the buyer and/or their CC.  They put the money on hold to protect it while they investigate.

So now what you need to do is go to your PP account.  And then to your resolution center.  There you should find this chargeback.  You need to enter all this stuff into that claim so that Ebay has the information.

All of it.  The fact they filed a claim in Ebay and lost.  You can attach the pics you got to the PP claim too.  Explain everything.  For me, I will typically wait a few hours or maybe the next day and then I call.  Depends on how impatient I am about the transaction and the money on how quickly I call.  But I always follow up with a phone call to make sure PP completely understands all the information I provided and to make sure I didn't forget anything.

Be sure to outline how you should be covered under Seller Protection too.  This is why we pay PP the big bucks.  So we have some protections when a transaction goes wrong.  As long as you shipped to on the address on the PP payment and have tracking, you should be in good shape here.

Please come back and tell us how this turns out for you and if we can be of any further help.  Once this is all done and you have your money back, let us help you Report this Buyer for abuse of the system.  What they have done here breaches a few of the Ebay rules.

[just_another_garage_sale]

You got it on the nose,

I did reply to the paypal claim.  Took screenshots and pretty much everything you suggested.  You can not call paypal right now, the only option available is to send a message and they reply back a day later.  They stated someone from the resolution department would call me.  No one from resolutions has called me.  It's been a month.  Collections calls me.  They called 6 times in less than 4 hrs one day.  The money was already deposited in my bank account, hence the negative balance.  I asked the collections person about the paypal protection, they said it does not apply to this case, protection only covers item not received, or unauthorized charge, the outcome will be entirely decided by the credit card company...

[mam98031]

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@just_another_garage_sale wrote:

You got it on the nose,

I did reply to the paypal claim.  Took screenshots and pretty much everything you suggested.  You can not call paypal right now, the only option available is to send a message and they reply back a day later.  They stated someone from the resolution department would call me.  No one from resolutions has called me.  It's been a month.  Collections calls me.  They called 6 times in less than 4 hrs one day.  The money was already deposited in my bank account, hence the negative balance.  I asked the collections person about the paypal protection, they said it does not apply to this case, protection only covers item not received, or unauthorized charge, the outcome will be entirely decided by the credit card company...

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OK, that is WAY too much time.  I've been able to call PP in the past month.  You need to talk with someone in the resolution dept.  You can access them.  It may take a little bit of trying, but it can be done.  Since so much time as passed, you've got yourself in a pretty little pickle here.  

Go to the bottom of this page tomorrow morning and try calling them.

https://www.paypal.com/dm/smarthelp/contact-us

[just_another_garage_sale]

I appreciate the link.  That is the first time since this started I have seen a "call us" link.