Buyer has an issue with the item but does not want to return due to customs fees. What should I do?

[doheee]

I sold a watch to a buyer in France. It sold for $3900 USD.  He claims he had to pay over 400 euros to get it out of customs. He then says that the serial number on the paperwork doesn't match with the watch, which is probably true since I foolishly didn't check this information beforehand. Normally I would ask him to return it for a full refund since the price it sold for is the minimum I wanted to accept for it. Further, the price it sold for is fair even if the paperwork doesn't match. Similar watches without any paperwork at all have sold for the same price. But he refuses to return it due to the customs fees he had to pay which can't be refunded. Instead it seems he wants a partial refund. I would really prefer not to give a partial refund and would rather find a new buyer. What are my options? 

[doheee]

He hasn't specified. He's asking me what I'm willing to do to accomodate him,  presumably a partial refund of a still-undetermined amount.

[mistressmime]

Tell him to return it for a refund. No partial refunds

[doheee]

Yeah I'm leaning towards calling his bluff and asking for a return.

[postingid2017]

I will agree with the return for refund responses - I don't know which country it was sent to, but surely there should be a way for him to get a refund on the import charges.  This is one of the main reasons as to why I will no longer accept international buyers due to the restrictions placed on items both new and used items in the EU.  

I really think that he is trying to get a partial because he wants to pay less for it.

[dvdappster]

Return for full refund.  

[*eponymous*]

I guess this is both a reply and a PSAs for those who don't have a clue about this.

Educate yourself about how the buyer can get his country to refund the fees when an item has been returned, and then pass this onto the buyer. 

The buyer is within his rights to insist that you refund his fees because you sold a SNAD item. It's your job to make the buyer whole.

Be more careful with other people's money.

[bigchief2472000]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

I guess this is both a reply and a PSAs for those who don't have a clue about this.

Educate yourself about how the buyer can get his country to refund the fees when an item has been returned, and then pass this onto the buyer. 

The buyer is within his rights to insist that you refund his fees because you sold a SNAD item. It's your job to make the buyer whole.

Be more careful with other people's money.

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I would say the seller has a moral obligation to make sure the buyer gets made whole (since the description of the item was innacurate); but legally, I think the responsibility for recovering import duties would fall on the person that imported the goods.  That's what makes logical sense to me anyway.  I'd go along with your suggestion for the seller to do a little research and try to help walk the buyer through the process, but I don't think the seller has any obligation to come out of pocket to reimburse the buyer for import duties.

[a_c_green]

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bigchief2472000 wrote: 
I would say the seller has a moral obligation to make sure the buyer gets made whole (since the description of the item was innacurate); but legally, I think the responsibility for recovering import duties would fall on the person that imported the goods.  That's what makes logical sense to me anyway.  I'd go along with your suggestion for the seller to do a little research and try to help walk the buyer through the process, but I don't think the seller has any obligation to come out of pocket to reimburse the buyer for import duties.

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I don't know what the official Customs term is, but isn't there some concept of "Returned Merchandise" or "Retail Return" or some such thing that can pass Customs without incurring another Duty charge on the way back? If so, is it possible for the buyer to use his original import paperwork (e.g. the Customs label off the original package) to be refunded by his post office when he sends the package back?

Obviously this would vary from one country to another, and I don't know which country we're talking about in this case, but I would assume that there must be some mechanism for refunding the Duty charge on an imported item that's getting turned around and sent back.

[*madison]

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@doheee wrote:

I sold a watch to a buyer in France. It sold for $3900 USD.  He claims he had to pay over 400 euros to get it out of customs. He then says that the serial number on the paperwork doesn't match with the watch, which is probably true since I foolishly didn't check this information beforehand. Normally I would ask him to return it for a full refund since the price it sold for is the minimum I wanted to accept for it. Further, the price it sold for is fair even if the paperwork doesn't match. Similar watches without any paperwork at all have sold for the same price. But he refuses to return it due to the customs fees he had to pay which can't be refunded. Instead it seems he wants a partial refund. I would really prefer not to give a partial refund and would rather find a new buyer. What are my options? 

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It doesn't matter what similar watches have sold for with no paperwork.

Fact is, you've sold an item not as described.

So, work with the buyer and try to make the buyer happy.

This is your fault for being careless.

[emerald40]

 He claims he had to pay over 400 euros to get it out of customs. He then says that the serial number on the paperwork doesn't match with the watch, which is probably true since I foolishly didn't check this information beforehand. 

___________________________________________________________

First he complains about having to pay the VAT, now suddenly the paperwork does not match and he wants that same amount back as a partial refund.  Coincidence?

OP, has he sent you any pictures to prove that they do not match?

Also Green pointed out something very important.  If the same item going in has to be returned do you even pay twice on that one item?

[lookng2015]

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@doheee wrote:

Just to clarify, the buyer is not asking me to pay the customs fees. He is only using that as a reason for not wanting to return the item. I certainly wouldn't be willing to pay a $400 partial refund.

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JFTR 400 Eu is closer to 500USD than 400

[slati_2013]

Normally I would agree with everyone else saying "return for a refund", however I would not want to take such a huge risk given the amount involved. There is nothing stopping him from putting an old watch in the box and returning it. He gets to keep the watch and a refund from eBay. Depending on how much your profit margin is, I would pay him off. $200? Far less risk than losing it all. 

[postingid2017]

It may have been the seller's fault for inaccurate paperwork, however, how is it this Seller's responsibility for the buyer's customs fees?  The seller will incur customs fees upon return for the watch due to the "sold" value, so what everyone is saying that the Seller should refund the Customs Fees, incur Customs Fees upon return and pay for return shipping?  The sold value will be borne by the seller if the buyer returns the watch, which he could recover, but the Seller would have to find out the information for his self.  However, I guess if enough of the complainers complain, eBay will force that too on Sellers, meaning stay up to day on international trade laws for each country that the seller ships to. Ridiculous, IMHO, because I am sure if you are not an attorney in International Trade will make most sellers not do business outside of the USA.

Again, I will restate international buyers can and will be unreasonable when it comes to returns and one of the main reasons why I will no longer conduct business with international buyers, especially those in the EU.  Customs Fees are refundable as long as the buyer submits the proper paper work for their Country, something that the buyer should know.  This is only my speculation, but the buyer if phishing for a partial, something that perhaps he/she has done in the past or as I like to say "eBay Trained."  How is the refund of the Customs Fees that the buyer was/is fully aware of make or break the watch unless he/she is buying to flip?

@doheee - trying to work things "out" may or may not make the buyer happy.  As stated by @emerald40 - (I think it was you emeral40, if not, please accept my apology in advance) it has been done in the past and the buyer still filed for a forced refund, thus making the buyer unjustly rewarded for bad behavior or thievery.  Either you want it or you don't and if you don't, return for refund.  Perhaps the OP should fly to France, pick up the item, refund the buyer, and fly back to home would be the only way the buyer would be "happy."  Sounds insane, maybe, but if the buyer is unhappy, return for refund, and deal with his/her Country for the return of the Customs Fees and not the seller.

This may not be the "popular" response, but so be it. 

[postingid2017]

I agree - guilting the Seller into paying his Customs Fees is what it is all about IMHO too.

[stl_vintage]

Very experienced with this - so take what I say seriously.

You have the upper hand because he's wanting something that's wrong and against ebay's rules. He clearly doesn't even want to get rid of the watch. He's hoping that he gets to keep it and you give him back way more money than he deserves for it, even if you were in the wrong, which is also suspect (just because he says something CERTAINLY doesn't mean that it's true).

Customs fees are 100% not your responsibility in any way, even in cases where they have a problem with the item they got. It's 100% their decision to go through with paying those fees to receive any item from overseas, and asking you to do something about it or to play it any differently than that is against ebay's rules. You can look it up yourself and see, and what's better is you can even copy the link to the page and show him.

They try to screw us all the time because they know we don't want to pay to have stuff sent back to us, because the overseas costs are so expensive. So, because he's claiming he wants to return it (I think that's a total bluff), HE'S the one that will be on the hook for the customs fees plus return costs. He's going to be out way, way, way more money than you if he does return it, because you don't have to cover those customs costs. So I'd just tell him he's more than welcome to return it and you pay the shipping costs (because that's all you are required to do).

You may or may not get a bad feedback, but there's ways you can boost yourself out of that hole as well. Keep in mind the feedbacks themselves matter very little these days toward your top rated seller standing, and bad feedbacks honestly don't have much of an effect anymore on your inventory's visibility (especially since the promoted listing thing took over).

Stick to your guns - nobody can make you pay those customs fees unless you physically do it yourself manually. So don't do that, tell him he's returning on your terms - and I'll be willing to bet there's a very good chance he'll back down and you'll be able to keep all your money.