eBay

christianmorill0 · ‎07-20-2023

After a great ordeal I have obtained proof from a Freight Forwarder in Florida that a refunded laptop has been delivered to the buyer on July 3. This is a matter that I tried resolving through multiple means daily (package intercept, search, hold, etc) to no avail as both USPS and Aeropost were slow in finding the laptop. I have contacted the buyer but so far he has not responded to my recent messages on returning or paying for the purchase through Pay Pal. I asked Ebay to intervene in this matter even though the usual time period of appeal passed but the first person attempting to help me instead wrote to me in Spanish how it was important to ensure that items arrive on time to avoid claims, as if I had any control over USPS logistics. The refunded item has been confirmed to be in the buyer's hands and may well keep it without paying. Does Ebay not provide protection from this? Where's the help?

slippinjimmy · ‎07-22-2023

@stephenmorgan wrote:
Looks like it was lost within USPS for a while (19 Days).

This happened to me once but the buyer was patient and waited almost 30 days for a USPS search to get the package moving again. He too used a freight forwarder.

Sometimes if eBay forced you to give a refund and you later show them the item was delivered they will refund you. If you refund on your own without being forced then they will not refund you.

Hopefully your buyer or eBay will refund you.

This ^^^^^^

Especially the part about a voluntary refund (yes I know it's a big defect if you don't, a risk you have to take)

One additional thing for anyone who cares.

This problem for the OP has nothing to do with it being a foreign buyer or that it was shipped to a forwarder. The EXACT same thing can and does happen with domestic buyers when USPS (etc) screws up and doesn't deliver within the estimated window.

Delivery window passes

Buyer opens an INR

Seller refunds

Package is delivered later

If the seller "voluntarily" refunds there is no possibility on appeal (unless you are "special"). The additional kicker is that package insurance won't pay off either, the best you can get from a shipper is a refund of the shipping cost IF you use a service like USPS Priority Express which has a delivery time guarantee.

Sometimes you will encounter a buyer that is willing to repay, the odds of that often are dependent on how "friendly & helpful" the seller has been.

It is also possible to get an extension from eBay if recent (7 - 10 days?) tracking movement is showing, it's not usually automatic so one needs to be proactive. eBay was good about this during Covid, not sure if they still are. The extension request must happen before the request is escalated to a claim.

FYI - I have a number of great buyers from Chile that use Aeropost, they provide an excellent service, one of best amongst Florida based forwarders (my buyers tell me this).

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep

dbfolks166mt · ‎07-22-2023

You would have been well served coming to this forum when you first had the issue rather than expending a lot of unnecessary time and research with an issue that is posted on this forum quite often. EBay does provide protection against claims where the item has gone through a freight forwarder as long as certain conditions are met within the policy. Your delay in addressing the issue, unilaterally refunding the buyer and following the advice of customer support has probably negated any possibility of you ever recovering the item or the money.

A lot of eBay cases are handled by automated software simply because eBay does not have the resources to manually check every case nor do they have any idea that the item was shipped through a freight forwarder and if the item was delivered to the FF they buyer has lost their protection under the MBG.

albertabrightalberta · ‎07-22-2023

@imac7065 wrote:

You're so wrong on this it's silly.. a buyer can't even have you send the watch they bought for their mother directly to their mother because its not the address on the account... using a 3rd party (ANY 3rd PARTY) to accept your item voids your protections... period. There is no gray area on this.. you are DEAD WRONG.....

No @imac7065

You're the one who is wrong.

A buyer can have a purchase shipped to (per your example) their mother as long as they add the mother's address to the order and check it as the "ship to" address. It doesn't matter that the mother's address isn't the account holder's address.

albertabrightalberta
Volunteer Community Mentor

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@albertabrightalberta while what you just wrote is literally true.. doing so voids your buyer protections... that's the point I was making.. I believe I even said that later in that comment which you didn't include in your quote... To clarify.. you can change the address to anywhere on earth you want as long as you do it before paying... but if its not the confirmed address on your account (IE your address) it voids your "ebay money back guarantee."

In fact.. later in that same comment I put a screen grab and link directly from that policy.. so please actually read comments before commenting on them.

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@yuzuha everyone saying the wrong thing is driving me batty on this.... YOU ARE WRONG.. EVERYONE CONTRADICTING ME IS WRONG!! I HAVE POSTED LITERAL PROOF OF MY STATEMENT DIRECTLY FROM THE EBAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE PROGRAM AND THE FACT THAT PEOPLE STILL WRITE THINGS LIKE THIS ARE DRIVING ME NUTS HERE LOL.....

Once more.. for those not paying attention still... IF A BUYER USES AN ADDRESS ON THEIR PAYMENT THAT IS NOT THEIR CONFIRMED ACCOUNT ADDRESS... IT VOIDS THE EBAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE PROGRAM AND VOIDS THEIR PROTECTIONS.. THERE IS NO GRAY AREA ON THIS... THIS IS IN BLACK AND WHITE ON ToS PAGE!!!

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

I cannot believe I have to post this FOR A THIRD TIME.... For those @ing me...

Here ... once again... is the screen grab from the ebay money back guarantee that says what I have over and over....

And here.. once again... is the ebay money back guarantee ToS page for you to verify the screen grab I just provided....

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

PLEASE STOP GIVING MISINFORMATION

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

If no one wants to read the screen grab or click the link I provided.. I have now HIGHLIGHTED the part that confirms what I have said over and over.. PLEASE READ THE SCREEN GRAB .. you can once again verify the authenticity of this information by clicking here: https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

qeqo_0 · ‎07-23-2023

@imac7065 wrote:
@albertabrightalberta while what you just wrote is literally true.. doing so voids your buyer protections... that's the point I was making.. I believe I even said that later in that comment which you didn't include in your quote... To clarify.. you can change the address to anywhere on earth you want as long as you do it before paying... but if its not the confirmed address on your account (IE your address) it voids your "ebay money back guarantee."

In fact.. later in that same comment I put a screen grab and link directly from that policy.. so please actually read comments before commenting on them.

Wrong.

Also, you were asked to show where the confirmed address on your account appears in your screenshot.

qeqo_0 · ‎07-23-2023

@imac7065 wrote:
@kensgiftshop are you kidding? THE VERY FIRST LINE SAYS YOU ARE "not protected" IF A 3RD PARTY ACCEPTS YOUR ORDER!!!!

No, it says collected by a third party.

collect

deliver

Notice the slight difference in spelling. Grandma is not a third party, she did not collect the flamethrower.

Or if it's a freight forwarder, it was delivered to them. But if it is reshipped beyond that original delivery, the buyer loses coverage.

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@qeqo_0 ... I'll answer you as clear as I can...

1) You (the buyer) can modify the address to anything you want pre payment.. once paid however, the seller is required to ship to the address on the payment or they violate their own protections

2) If you choose to change your address from the address on your account, you void your buyer protections.. the seller is still required to ship to the address on the payment. If the address is invalid, not your personal account address, or some freight forwarding / 3rd party... you void your buyer protections.

3) It doesn't literally say "confirmed address" it says "3rd party" IE anything but that address.. if you're semantically confusing this with someone picking up your package at the post office or something.. that is also covered in the screen shot I provided.

4) I have no idea why you're trying to spin black and white text here...it's getting very frustrating. YES, YOUR GRANDMOTHER IS A 3RD PARTY! An ebay transaction is a contract.. a contract between party a (the seller) and party b (the buyer)... anyone else is a 3rd party. The entire reason this rule is in place is because if YOU buy something online, yet someone other than YOU say something is wrong with it... how can the first party be held liable? They aren't part of the contract.... this isn't rocket science lol

yuzuha · ‎07-23-2023

@imac7065 wrote:
@qeqo_0 ... I'll answer you as clear as I can...

1) You (the buyer) can modify the address to anything you want pre payment.. once paid however, the seller is required to ship to the address on the payment or they violate their own protections

2) If you choose to change your address from the address on your account, you void your buyer protections.. the seller is still required to ship to the address on the payment. If the address is invalid, not your personal account address, or some freight forwarding / 3rd party... you void your buyer protections.

3) It doesn't literally say "confirmed address" it says "3rd party" IE anything but that address.. if you're semantically confusing this with someone picking up your package at the post office or something.. that is also covered in the screen shot I provided.

4) I have no idea why you're trying to spin black and white text here...it's getting very frustrating. YES, YOUR GRANDMOTHER IS A 3RD PARTY! An ebay transaction is a contract.. a contract between party a (the seller) and party b (the buyer)... anyone else is a 3rd party. The entire reason this rule is in place is because if YOU buy something online, yet someone other than YOU say something is wrong with it... how can the first party be held liable? They aren't part of the contract.... this isn't rocket science lol

Literally everything in this is wrong. "Items collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer" refers specifically to situations where the buyer sends someone else to pick up the item instead of doing so themselves-- for instance, the boss of a company makes an in-person pick-up purchase and then sends an employee to pick it up instead.

You absolutely still have buyer protection against INRs if you order something and have it shipped to your grandmother's address and then it never gets there and tracking does not show it was delivered. It does not matter what address you have something shipped to (your house, your grandmother, your vacation house, your office); if it was the address attached to the transaction when payment was made and tracking does not show 'Delivered,' then you are covered by the MBG.

In fact, let me ping a blue to confirm this. kyle@ebay , if you please?

kensgiftshop · ‎07-23-2023

@imac7065 wrote:
@kensgiftshop are you kidding? THE VERY FIRST LINE SAYS YOU ARE "not protected" IF A 3RD PARTY ACCEPTS YOUR ORDER!!!!

I have had more than 20 cases cancelled for this rule in the last few years... I have been on this platform for over 20 years sir!.... I also have been doing this long enough to know 20-40% of "tech support" know less about the ToS than sellers do.. it's so bad that I as a seller can call in and request "xx" person get re trained because what they just told me was provably wrong lol.

Yes, it says that, but it also says:

"When the buyer doesn't receive an item

Sellers are required to deliver the item to the address in the Order details, unless the buyer selected a local pickup option.

If the item doesn't arrive at the address provided by the buyer at checkout or isn't made available for collection, the buyer is entitled to a full refund, including original shipping costs (if applicable)."

You can have it shipped to any address you provide at check out and still be covered by the MBG.

Even if the buyer uses a freight forwarder, as long as the package shows it was delivered at that address, the seller is covered. What happens after the freight forwarder is between the buyer and freight forwarder.

I know about CS, that's why I don't call them.

Have a great day.

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@yuzuha how can you keep being so utterly and completely wrong yet so arrogant about it? I don't comprehend this.. I am not talking out of my butt here.. not only do I have more than a dozen (probably 2 dozen) real world experiences with this.. I've had it confirmed by the top of ebay support (merchant support) many many MANY times... if you don't believe me.. please tag whoever moderate this forum and ask them for confirmation.. how you spin this ridiculously is beyond my comprehension.. I can only assume you have some heavy bias on this subject you are not being honest about. This is one of the very few pro seller ebay rules.. and I champion it.

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@yuzuha I am currently speaking to a supervisor named Brianna from the MSO (merchant support) team (the highest level of support in all of ebay)... they 100% confirmed everything I have been saying over and over.. if you can have someone else at ebay confirm for you as well.. please do. I do not want people misinformed.. especially of their selling abilities and rights on ebay.

imac7065 · ‎07-23-2023

@kensgiftshop Please reference my last message.... I had this confirmed (for about the 50th time in 2-3 years lol) by a supervisor from the MSO department of ebay.