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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

After having spent 1,200 + tax on 12 pieces of what i thought were genuine deeply carved bakelite bangles, i am now discovering that what this Taiwan seller sold me were MOLDED plastic fakelites that have been treated with chemicals to pass the simichrome test...yes i know, buying from a seller in Taiwan who seems to have a NEVER ENDING supply of the same identical grade, deeply carved CHARACTER bangles should have raised flags, but i went against my better judgement because i was so enamored by the pieces. Its really been a nightmare scenario but i would appreciate any of the experts on this forum to check out one of several items this seller is selling - i would really appreciate your comments and suggestions - thankyou

items 114303054820, and 114270395683

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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

I probably should have gotten off my lazy rump and done this first, but here are 2 pages from the book, "Plastic Bangles, " by Lynn Tortiello and Deborah Lyons.  I recommend this book highly for plastic bangle collectors, but they do talk about "Fakelite" and include several pictures.  I hope the print's not too small to read.

 

bakelite2.JPGbakelite1.JPG

I'm not a hoarder! There's a price tag on everything!
Message 16 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Don't shoot me, moderator, but I have to post these full size because the print was too small in the last post and the information is too good.

 

bakelite1.JPGbakelite2.JPG

I'm not a hoarder! There's a price tag on everything!
Message 17 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Thanks for the info Dream.  Just in case for the rare occasion ( slim chance in h💋LL ) I might come across some in the wild.  

 

I never understood the Bakelite obsession.  I think I’m just a tick to young and the traditional colors never seemed that appealing to me.   I love the later plastics or acrylics with confetti or clear mixed with brights or pastels.  

 

I’m sure some don’t understand my love for OVER THE TOP 1980s jewelry either!   We all have different tastes. 

Mermaid 🐳

Message 18 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Thanks for sharing Dream.  Mermaid, I too like the over the top pieces.

 

The real point of this thread is that you need to do your home work and due diligence when buying online, not just here on eBay but any time you buy online.  It is up to you what you purchase site unseen.  Anyone can take a picture or use a stock photo to list anything.  Don't even let me get started on gem stones and precious metals.  There are reputable sellers out here, lots of them.  But there are some bad apples as well.  It's no different when it comes to buyers. 

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the only entity here that has true control of the good, bad, and ugly is eBay.  I have been selling and buying here on eBay for over 20 years.  So far I haven't seen them being really interested in bad sellers or bad buyers, unless of course, it gets really bad.  But then all that happens is the bad apples simply open new accounts and continue doing what they were doing before.  Sorry, but that is the reality of eBay. 

 

So caveat emptor!  

Though the beauty may be in the butterfly, the struggle and growth occur in the cocoon.
Message 19 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Hey, we need over-the-top girls representin' here!  That's a realm I'm mostly unfamiliar with because I'm old.  Ha!  I'm an earth tone lover, so bakelite has always appealed to me.

 

Sandy, you're right in that our best weapon is research.  I've not only learned so much here over the years, but I've also made good money recognizing and selling pieces that others missed because they weren't in the know.  One of my favorite things I've read, I think it was by ev, was "I can walk into any antiques mall and find that one piece that the seller missed and priced too low."  

I'm not a hoarder! There's a price tag on everything!
Message 20 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

DP- Thanks for upping that informative piece (and large legible jpg too 🙂 )

So whats also a bit puzzling too for me, if these fakelites were made recently 1990's/2000's, why aren't we seeing them overrun the true bakelite market? What i mean is if i am assuming the Chinese/Asians must have pumped them out in assembly-line type operation (or sweatshop style depending on where in Asia i suppose) then there should technically be hundreds of sellers hawking the fakelite in several platforms..besides the seller in question, i can only find 2-3 other sellers selling the fakelite (dragon/asian/animal themes that are deeply carved).

 

till soon

Message 21 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Possibly because it has been on the market for at least 10 or 12 years that I know of.  When it first hit the market the Bakelite collectors went nuts for it, thinking they were getting vintage Bakelite.  Then reality hit.  The truth came out.  And the collectors stopped buying it.  People learned more about the differences and with knowledge came power.  The power to choose whether they wanted the piece for the beauty of it instead of for the allure of the term Bakelite.  You still find it in local flea markets and antique shops, even in some estate sales.  Since I don't generally pursue it, I really don't know how much is out there on the internet.

Though the beauty may be in the butterfly, the struggle and growth occur in the cocoon.
Message 22 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

I think I saw a piece of it once.  A local dealer, now deceased (this was years ago) had what looked like a gorgeous carved red bakelite bangle.  Felt like one too.  She had it priced $20 because she said it wasn't actually bakelite.   Dealers have been wrong before, but the lady in question had a lot of years' experience.  I usually buy bakelite, in a non-Covid year, at rummage sales and estate sales where it's gone undetected.  


She who dies with the most toys still dies; when's the estate sale?
Message 23 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

fortvintage, your scenario held true 10 to 20 years ago, but like Sandy said, the collectors noticed this sudden influx of bakelite and backed off.  It was so distinct, different and copious that collectors instantly recognized the origin.  There are still plenty of collectors out there for the genuine pieces but the market has settled quite a bit and I'm not sure if it will ever come back as strong as it once was. 

I'm not a hoarder! There's a price tag on everything!
Message 24 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

I was going to say this,  but Sandy beat me.  It’s worth repeating though....

 

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!! 

Mermaid  🐳

Message 25 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

 

UPDATE: My situation has gone from bad to worse folks..

I was informed by PP that they have ruled on sellers favor..the appeal also failed. YES i made the mistake of first filing with PP instead of Ebay..i know, i thought it woud be better. I am really flabbergasted that i would lose the claim with PP. Ofcourse i called ebay and explained but they said once you file a claim with PP, it negates any claims i may start with ebay. I now dont know what to do.

The ebay rep has suggested i email the seller and ask her to send me a shipping label, and that PP will honor this shipping label as an agreement between us that seller will accept return of items and the eventual refund of said payments. 

Will this work and is this the best i can expect out of this? Ofcourse i am concerned this method might set me up to not only lose my money, but also lose the goods too if seller decides " she didnt receive package" or similar. 

I did email her a few hours ago and she did say AGAIN that she is willing to take back her goods and refund the money, so when i asked her to send me a shipping label, she said she never did that before and does not know how.

Can anyone please suggest what my next step should be, and how can i get her to send the shipping label?

Message 26 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

PS the return item icon on "my purchases" page is still clickable but when i try to process it, it will not allaw me..also for the record, seller does say " 30 money back guarantee", but this may all be "too late" information.

Message 27 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

If you filed a claim with PP and they found in her favor, as far as eBay and PP are concerned you are out of options.

The only recourse you have is IF you paid with a credit card, you can file with them.  Since PP found in her favor the seller has no obligation to accept your return.  If you are past her 30 day return policy, she has no obligation to accept your return.  So returning the item now is purely a crap-shoot to whether the seller will refund.  At this point, you might want to consider cutting your loses because you are out of aces, unless you paid with a credit card.  IMHO

Though the beauty may be in the butterfly, the struggle and growth occur in the cocoon.
Message 28 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

Where I am ( the NY area), there is a dealer who has 2 huge display cases of carved 'Bakelite" bangles. She charges high prices. I never bought one, knowing that they were fakelite, but her attendance at shows indicates that someone does!. 

Message 29 of 34
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Bakelite nightmare..Can the experts please weigh in ?

bat197 - i wonder if she sold any of it and if any irate customers came screaming back..judging by the couple of sellers online (for prices ranging from $450-$900 for one) they are still sitting on their respective shelves.

 

 

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