eBay

jpgharv29 · ‎03-11-2021

Hi everyone,

Wow! These boards have sure changed since I've last come here. Geeez!

Anyway, I was wondering is it fair to assign a Hermes attribution (Hermes being the retailer) to this tiny (1-1/2 x 1in.) Art Deco purse watch made by, Andre Wyler..............even though the Hermes name is not on the piece?

I ask this because early in Wyler's start-up as a company (1920s-30s), he had a partnership with Hermes. Very, very few of his examples are out there with the Hermes name. I also ask because other timepiece companies of that era (such as Otomato who also had a parnership with Hermes) even though SOME of their purse watches do not bare the Hermes name, have been successfully attributed to Hermes as being the retailer.

IMHO, this tiny beauty screams of Hermes from this era, but I could be wrong.

Thank you all in advance for your time.

_____________________________________________________________

jpgharv29 · ‎03-11-2021

Below, is an Art Deco example made by Andre Wyler and retailed by, Hermes.

_____________________________________________________________

argon38 · ‎03-11-2021

What does it say under the 6 on your dial? I can't quite make out the wording.

maxine*j · ‎03-11-2021

@argon38 wrote:
What does it say under the 6 on your dial? I can't quite make out the wording.

I wondered about that, too. It seems to say FRANCE MADE, which seems odd wording.

maxine*j · ‎03-11-2021

I have nothing to offer except the obvious: If you're thinking of selling it on eBay, be careful with the attribution because Hermes is part of VeRO and fairly fierce.

melda58 · ‎03-11-2021

I think there is a letter or something between "France and Made". I can't make it out either.

Rita

melda58 · ‎03-11-2021

And I note the larger size of the 12,3,6,9 numbers - is that typical of the Wyler/ Hermes watches?

Rita

argon38 · ‎03-11-2021

Curioser and curioser. Somebody posted this photo of an André Wyler- signed nurse's watch on a French website. They note the words FRANCE IN MADE [sic] on the dial. Here's a direct link to the photo:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f44/20/15/01/68/g10.png

And here's a link to the post (you have to scroll way, way down):

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t217622p800-ici-vos-demandes-d-identification-de-montres-de-poch...

(Incidentally, they mention having found a model nearly identical to theirs on a Hermès watch auction site, but with a "Mido" movement instead - who knows what that is all about.)

Perhaps the FRANCE IN MADE error had its origin in the SWISS MADE caption found on so many timepieces. But would a firm like Hermès have let such an error stand? Probably not. In any event, I think a buyer who wins a "Hermès" item and later notices FRANCE IN MADE (or the like) will not be too happy about it.

sonomabarn67 · ‎03-12-2021

Have you found the exact watch by Hermes to compare against yours? I don't think you can even include any reference to Hermes (looks like, could be, after...). Looking at the innards doesn't it look a bit iffy quality-wise? Just like that Orient Express ashtray I'm looking at, I've found a number of fakes/recastings and it's coming down to the quality of the casting.

maxine*j · ‎03-12-2021

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
... Looking at the innards doesn't it look a bit iffy quality-wise?...

I know very little about watches, but does having a movement with 15 jewels tell us anything? I used to have wrist watches that were 18-jewel and they were hardly luxury watches.

melda58 · ‎03-12-2021

It seems to me that someone who didn't know English produced this as a copy/ knock-off, thus the "France in Made" instead of "Made in France". Also the numbers are imprecise and look hand drawn, and the silver finish seems suspect but maybe it's the photo.

Rita

argon38 · ‎03-12-2021

@melda58 wrote:
It seems to me that someone who didn't know English produced this as a copy/ knock-off, thus the "France in Made" instead of "Made in France".

Yet if it's a knock-off, why would they not have added the Hermès brand name? Why fabricate an André Wyler timepiece that isn't explicitly associated with Hermès?

sonomabarn67 · ‎03-12-2021

With any potential knock-off, you'll only do yourself harm as you fall down the rabbit hole to defend it. That is, unless, someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat!

argon38 · ‎03-13-2021

@sonomabarn67 wrote:
With any potential knock-off, you'll only do yourself harm as you fall down the rabbit hole to defend it. That is, unless, someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat!

It isn't mine, it's jpgharv's! And I'm not attempting to defend it - I'm the one who first raised suspicion over the wording on the dial, and I'm the one who found another Hermès-like item with FRANCE IN MADE instead of MADE IN FRANCE.

I just feel we shouldn't rush to the conclusion that this makes it a fake Hermès piece, particularly as it doesn't say Hermès anywhere, and doesn't appear to imitate any known Hermès design. Also, I may be wrong but I don't think Hermès made nurses' watches (like the one in my link). But André Wyler did. Why would a Hermès faker fake a nurse's watch? So whie I don't accept the Hermès connection, I am open to the possibility of it being an authentic André Wyler piece.