eBay

first_state_pro_audio_video · ‎03-16-2020

The buyer paid through PayPal Dec 18, 2019. $346.24.

I left positive feedback on Ebay for the buyer Dec 18, 2019.

I shipped via UPS Ground Dec 19, 2019. UPS shows it was delivered on 12/30/2019 10:21 A.M.

Buyer had item since Dec 30, 2019, well over 60 days, and buyer never complained, never contacted Ebay, PayPal or me about item having any issues.

On Feb 25, 2020 the buyer made a "charge-back" with the credit card company he used to make this purchase saying "not as described".

The buyer did not go through Ebay or Paypal for dispute or complaint.

His CC company immediately reversed the payment to PayPal without requiring any proof and PayPal notified me of that. My PP account is now negative -$346.24 and the buyer has my items.

That is internet theft, fraud and internet banking fraud. The buyer now has my money and my items.

PayPal has a case number and I gave PayPal all the additional information that they requested.

PayPal said the buyer never contacted them about any problems. As I promptly shipped the item, have proof, lots of pictures and a reputation in good standing with both Ebay and PayPal, they are in contact with the buyers CC company trying to get the money back to my account.

I called Ebay and customer support said the buyer has been suspended by Ebay for similar complaints and other issues. There is a record of this call.

CS agreed this buyer is obviously trying to extort money and my item from me through Paypal with a thing called "charge-back", usually reserved for items paid for and not received. It is becoming a wide spread problem and Ebay said they can not do anything about getting money back or items returned if the charge-back scam is used. Ebay seller protection is a big joke.

The police dept in WA, (3,000 miles away) where the buyer lives and where the items were shipped, said to file a complaint with IC3.

PayPal said to also file a complaint with IC3.

I filed a complaint with IC3 and am following up with this complaint to Ebay community.

This buyer may have other accounts on Ebay and Ebay needs to stop this buyer wherever he may be hiding under a different account name.

I only sell a few personal items a year so I don't have a business to deduct losses through. All my items now require pick up / pay in person so I no longer ship items or accept payments through PayPal. Ebay will still get my selling fees but will loose shipping fees profit and PayPal will no longer take their slice.

Hopefully Ebay, PayPal and the credit card companies will take steps to stop this "charge back" fraud.

femmefan1946 · ‎03-16-2020

That's painful to read.

I called Ebay and customer support said the buyer has been suspended by Ebay for similar complaints and other issues.

That was the least they could do.

I filed a complaint with IC3 and am following up with this complaint to Ebay community.

Please let the community know the outcomes.

This buyer may have other accounts on Ebay and Ebay needs to stop this buyer wherever he may be hiding under a different account name.

EBay says, and it seems to be generally true, that if one account is closed down, all accounts on that address are closed down.

We do see complaints about this from members who were caught in a net that was a little too large, like one student scamming in a university dorm, or more problematically a family member scamming without the knowledge of the rest of the family.

Thank you for following through on this and not just complaining about it.

I sincerely hope you are eventually recompensed.

And that the scammer gets to meet the USPS Postal Inspectors, who are rumoured to frighten the Spanish Inquisition.

picknparley · ‎03-16-2020

That's a real nice buyer you came across.

Doesn't it seem that the buyer's cc company is the perpetrator here? And if he's done this before the CC company has even more reason to pay you back and for them to prosecute their own card holder. That cc company is really passing the buck here, but in reality it's their problem.

Have you communicated with their cc company?

dk0 · ‎03-16-2020

I don't believe there is any way to know who the cc issuer is. PayPal won't give you that info, and even if they did, they aren't going to give you the cc number, etc.

And the cc issuer is never going to confirm if a person by the name you sold to has an account with them.

picknparley · ‎03-16-2020

Even with an investigation for fraud? Could an attorney get that info?

What other recourse would there be?

mr_lincoln · ‎03-16-2020

@first_state_pro_audio_video wrote: " ... CS agreed this buyer is obviously trying to extort money and my item from me through Paypal with a thing called "charge-back", usually reserved for items paid for and not received. It is becoming a wide spread problem and Ebay said they can not do anything about getting money back or items returned if the charge-back scam is used. Ebay seller protection is a big joke. ..."

_________________________________________________________________

THIS is one of my concerns with managed Payments which will be more credit card based ... I really hope we don't see an increase in this sort of thing with that Program when more and more Buyers stop using PayPal and switch to credit card purchases. It's great the guy got kicked off eBay but the issue is getting everyone's money back that he scammed ... Sellers should have a MBG when a Charge Back is pursued ...

Best regards,
Mr. Lincoln - eBay Community Mentor

fashunu4eeuh · ‎03-16-2020

Hi, so sorry this happened to you.

Wanted to call this to your attention in the Accepted Payments policy:

The following payment methods, which are offered at eBay checkout, are allowed:

PayPal
PayPal Credit
Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account
Payment upon pickup
- Payment upon pickup must offer one of the approved electronic payment methods. Listings may include the statement: "Contact me for payment methods to pay on pickup."

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/payment-policies/accepted-payments-policy?id=4269

dk0 · ‎03-16-2020

If it becomes a criminal investigation, then I am sure they would have more ability to get records related to the purchase.

I was just stating that the seller isn't going to be able to get anything done through the cc company by him/herself.

femmefan1946 · ‎03-16-2020

... Sellers should have a MBG when a Charge Back is pursued ...

Wellllll.... maybe.

But in some cases, where the scammer is a seller who persuades the buyer to wait for a replacement or schmoozes the buyer past the 180 day Paypal dispute deadline, or tells the naive buyer that the case must be closed in order to make a refund....

So not a "guarantee" since while most people are honest, the criminals may be buyer or seller.

I'm not sure how a credit card refunds a seller (or seller's agent like Paypal) without the permission of the cardholder.

lightlily_arts · ‎03-16-2020

What I don't understand is why the credit card company would refund the buyer without requiring them to return the item or request any information regarding the validity of the claim prior to refunding them.

twnpopcards · ‎03-16-2020

@first_state_pro_audio_video wrote:
The buyer paid through PayPal Dec 18, 2019. $346.24.
I left positive feedback on Ebay for the buyer Dec 18, 2019.
I shipped via UPS Ground Dec 19, 2019. UPS shows it was delivered on 12/30/2019 10:21 A.M.
Buyer had item since Dec 30, 2019, well over 60 days, and buyer never complained, never contacted Ebay, PayPal or me about item having any issues.
On Feb 25, 2020 the buyer made a "charge-back" with the credit card company he used to make this purchase saying "not as described".
The buyer did not go through Ebay or Paypal for dispute or complaint.
His CC company immediately reversed the payment to PayPal without requiring any proof and PayPal notified me of that. My PP account is now negative -$346.24 and the buyer has my items.
That is internet theft, fraud and internet banking fraud. The buyer now has my money and my items.
PayPal has a case number and I gave PayPal all the additional information that they requested.
PayPal said the buyer never contacted them about any problems. As I promptly shipped the item, have proof, lots of pictures and a reputation in good standing with both Ebay and PayPal, they are in contact with the buyers CC company trying to get the money back to my account.
I called Ebay and customer support said the buyer has been suspended by Ebay for similar complaints and other issues. There is a record of this call.
CS agreed this buyer is obviously trying to extort money and my item from me through Paypal with a thing called "charge-back", usually reserved for items paid for and not received. It is becoming a wide spread problem and Ebay said they can not do anything about getting money back or items returned if the charge-back scam is used. Ebay seller protection is a big joke.
The police dept in WA, (3,000 miles away) where the buyer lives and where the items were shipped, said to file a complaint with IC3.
PayPal said to also file a complaint with IC3.
I filed a complaint with IC3 and am following up with this complaint to Ebay community.
This buyer may have other accounts on Ebay and Ebay needs to stop this buyer wherever he may be hiding under a different account name.
I only sell a few personal items a year so I don't have a business to deduct losses through. All my items now require pick up / pay in person so I no longer ship items or accept payments through PayPal. Ebay will still get my selling fees but will loose shipping fees profit and PayPal will no longer take their slice.
Hopefully Ebay, PayPal and the credit card companies will take steps to stop this "charge back" fraud.

@first_state_pro_audio_video

You might also want to file Mail Fraud Charges with USPS on their website. I know they have links to the Postal Inspectors site where you can file the claim. They may or may not investigate it based on the value of the items as well as how many others have also filed a claim against this party. Mail Fraud is a Federal Crime and if convicted has very stiff penalties associated with it. The nice part is once they start an investigation they actually do follow through and go after the party that is making the fraudulent claim.

Good luck with getting this resolved in your favor. I would not only file the charges but also let the scammer know that you have done so as many times this gets their attention very quickly, especially if they have done this before or had prior interaction with the Postal Inspectors.

first_state_pro_audio_video · ‎03-17-2020

The USPS had nothing to do with this transaction.

UPS did their job as shippers and can do no more.

PayPal, the buyers credit card processor, has seller protection and said they are working with the buyers cc company to reverse this fraudulent charge back.

PP said fraudulent charge backs are internet theft, fraud and internet banking fraud.

CC company's are not supposed to do charge backs if the buyer and seller are more than 100 miles apart to stop this type of fraud but they do not enforce this.

That is why I was told to file with IC3, Internet Crime Complaints.

imakesugar · ‎03-17-2020

@first_state_pro_audio_video wrote:
The USPS had nothing to do with this transaction.

UPS did their job as shippers and can do no more.

PayPal, the buyers credit card processor, has seller protection and said they are working with the buyers cc company to reverse this fraudulent charge back.

PP said fraudulent charge backs are internet theft, fraud and internet banking fraud.

CC company's are not supposed to do charge backs if the buyer and seller are more than 100 miles apart to stop this type of fraud but they do not enforce this.

That is why I was told to file with IC3, Internet....

United States Post Office also handles any item shipped with UPS and Fedex and any other delivery Company. So do go a head and file a report with USPS . IC3 and USPS are responsible for prosecuting different types of crimes. I would still report this Buyer to his local police department.

If You still have his email I’d write a message to him like this.
Dear Buyer, I just got notice that Your payment to me was taken back from me by you credit card company. My records show that You received your order on Xx. I did not get any complaints from you about your order through either the eBay nor the PayPal resolution centers. Is it possible you have this transaction confused with another purchase that you weren’t satisfied with from another seller? Could you please check your records and get back to me. If you have made a mistake I can send you a new invoice for the amount of our transaction (be sure to send it as friend to friend )or you could call your Credit Card and tell them You made a mistake.

If I don’t hear from You by XXX I am going to file a report with the Internet Crimes 3, USA Postal Service for mail fraud, and with Your local Law Enforcement agency. I do not like doing this before notifying my Buyer as the penalties are stiff. (Insert link to USPS penalties.) Hopefully this Credit Card clawback is only a mistake that COULD be fixed before future penalties get noticed.
I hope to hear from you soon. I am not a Big enough Seller to lose this income as this money is used to support my family. $3xx.xx is a hardship for me and my family.

Sincerely your Seller.

cream_couture · ‎03-17-2020

Sorry that this has happened.

I've had a few customers do a chargeback months later during my years as a seller. Paypal has always immediately taken my money off of hold while they resolved it. It sometimes takes months for Paypal to resolve, but it is under seller protection (from what they told me every time it happened). Sometimes buyers have claimed they never received (which I have tracking evidence for).

I suggest calling Paypal, if you haven't already (I can't tell from your comments here). I also suggest reporting to your local police department and getting a report number. My brother works for the police and he has always told me I should file with my police department, vs a buyer's police department. I would email the buyer to tell them they have reported to authorities (police, Paypal, ebay, USPS and IC3) for fraud. You can give the IC3 and police report ID to th Paypal.