Simply-the-best-for-you Volunteer Community Mentor
@gurlcat wrote:
@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:Now OP seems to be saying that there was also a PL on this item, that he didn't set.
This is clearly user error.
So let me get this straight. You think because the OP has found that an additional feature he did not know about or intentionally set up was applied the same day an offer was sent on his generator, you find it more likely that it was his own fingers? So basically he's like a chimpanzee or something, just pounding on random keys with no idea or care what they do.
I asked you before to describe how he could have accidentally sent the offer, but you just keep saying user error. I know your idea about the math -it doesn't work, and I've already explained why. Even if it did work, it would still be a matter of him intentionally sending an offer, just doing it incorrectly. He has said repeatedly he has never even tried to send an offer, he set up the listing weeks before anything happened with it and had only one other item listed, so he was not even messing with ebay to accidentally do anything, just waiting for a notification that either item sold.
DO NOT put words into my mouth. I NEVER called OP any name. Yes, the fact that he now has 2 things that were turned on without him knowing does in fact lead to a greater increase in the chance of user error & it was already at 99%. Simply logic.
I've explained multiple times that the OP's knowledge of Ebay & how to use the system is in fact, critically important. I have also explained multiple times that there are MANY ways to navigate to turn either or both of those features on & likely there are places that he could have navigated to that would involve turning BOTH on at once. When you start adding a variety of platforms & enviroments, we easily get into the hundreds. I am intentionally not going to go down your path of attempting to determine which of the literally hundreds of ways he could have done this, was used. Because 40 years of experience troubleshooting & debugging software for Fortune 100 co's has taught me that to do that is futile & a giant waste of my time (unless I could see a video & keystroke log). You would need to know his exact platform, tech enviroment, keystrokes & much more, to do so. We will likely NEVER know exactly what he did. There is NO WAY to know that unless you were there watching him & can replay the tape, so to speak. We cannot know what occurred in hindsight. There are literally thousands of variables. I do not go down that road b/c I know enough not to waste my time trying.
You can disagree all you want, but don't put words into my mouth. I spent my entire life doing this & I know a user error when I see one. The thousands of variables also don't account for EBay's ever-changing screens/ads/etc. So, when I speak of the already hundreds of navigation variables, there are also ones that we can't possibly know if/when they showed up. I also from 40 years of experience know that a user's narrative as to what they did/didn't do is almost never complete/correct (kinda like crime witnesses). They forget things, they don't mention things that are important, they don't notice all the keystrokes they 'automatically' make & all of that gets worse as time increases. None of this means I think the OP is a liar or any other name you've used. He is quite typically, an average user for someone who is not a regular seller. None of this reflects on him, it is perfectly normal user behavior.
My solid guess now that I've learned another feature was turned on is that OP got shown an ad or a button or something similar that said 'want to maximize your sales?' & that probably turned both on at once, but yes, the fact that now there are 2 things turned on that he has no idea what they even are, does increase the likliehood of it being a user error.
Add to the fact, that not one other user has reported either of these. There have been similar issues, but correlation does not equal causation & most of us already knew about the prior issues. So one user, has now 2 issues, that no one else has had, the logic already points to user error. It's been almost a week & that has not changed, the logic points even more to a user error. In addition, 90%+ of all problems are user error, then you add the info he has filled in & all the logic points to that conclusion.
My gawd, I was literally one of the best in the country at this. I can code Machine & Assembler language & was courted by the #1 company in the world for this skill set. If you don't believe me/agree with me, that's totally fine & your prerogative, but quit putting words in my mouth or implying that I think the OP is a liar or any other name you have used. I think no such thing! I think he is a typical user who accidentally made a mistake. One which Ebay most likely helped him to make by making it easy to agree to features he didn't understand & didn't understand would cost him money. I also know full well that "glitches" occur. Newsflash, they are not "glitches", there is no such thing. They are programming errors. This is likely not one of them.
@wastingtime101 wrote:For whatever this is worth to anybody:
After working with that seller for a while, he and I discovered he seller did send out an offer 2 months earlier, forgot about it, and didn't realize that auto-offers were checked off. Then the listing had a new interested buyer a couple months later and that auto-offer went out, long after the OP forgot about the initial offer.
Exactly true. I didn't see this, but just posted about how a user's recollection of what happened is almost never true. They forget, they miss things, many keystrokes they don't even think about, as they are on auto-pilot, etc. That does not make the user a liar, it makes them human & a typical user. The vast majority of the time (kind of like crime witnesses) their recollection is wrong & almost always omits critical info.
@robots-r-us wrote:Thank you for your kind support in this issue. Your time, thoughtful consideration and kind thoughts defending my honor have not been overlooked.
Thank you for your insight, and also for lending your considerable experience to the various dimensions of this discussion. I appreciate your time and consideration also. My many decades of engineering experience have taught me that the simplest explanation is usually correct, which causes me to accept the possibility that an error was made unknowingly, but I remain skeptical that eBay may be culpable, at least in part.
ALL
I have reached out to the buyer to find out if, or when, he ever watched the item or added it to his cart and to recollect the time and date. Perhaps that intelligence will provide a clue as to how the offer was sent to him.
As for the PL issue with the other item I have listed, it was placed on the board for the purpose of full disclosure. I did this knowing the connection would be made that ‘Uh-huh, he did it once; he probably did it on the generator also.’ As such, I continue to search my memory banks to find some kernel of evidence that would suggest I accept an error was made, even though none has been found. I will continue to look.
@robots-r-us Thank you for your kind words & for your full disclosure. That must have been difficult for you to do, but It shows that you are looking for the truth, even if that truth has nothing to do with zebras ;-), I know with an engineering background, you'll get that reference. I hold you in high regard for doing that. I held you in high regard anyway. I'm glad the buyer is cooperating with you. I will caution you that buyers also do not remember every detail of how they've navigated & what they've clicked either.
I'll share with you that I personally use both the PL features & the Sending Offers feature. When PL's first came out, I didn't want my buyers to be able to 'double dip' so to speak, so I had the bright idea to ask them about their navigation to my listing prior to sending them an offer. I would try to ascertain if the buyer had navigated to the listing via a way I would have to pay the additional PL fee. Almost every single one I asked swore to me that they just navigated via the "regular" listing & not the "sponsored" listing (back then there was a clear delineation). In reality, almost always, they had actually navigated using the Sponsored listing & not noticed it. I had to give up that little endeavor due to the near 100% inaccuracy of the answers LOL.
I hope you do get to the bottom of this & for you, I hope that I'm wrong & Ebay did mess up somehow b/c I'd love for your losses to be covered by Ebay, I realize this was an expensive lesson 😞 🤞 I think many of us are invested in your outcome at this point & I do hope you prevail 🤞
ETA: Now that this story made its way to Ina's newsletter, which is widely read in the industry, it also increases the chances of anyone else who may have experienced the same thing, to come out & make their story known. Her readership is substantial.
@robots-r-us wrote:
The following was sent to elizabeth@ebay via communitysubscriptions@ebay.com.
I share it with the group with the hopes of finding any errors or omissions.
HI Elizabeth,
The discussion thread on the forum has pretty-well scrutinized my predicament, and it appears the ball is now in your court. Here is what I know for sure:
- I, the seller, did not send an offer to the buyer.
- I am unaware of my eBay account ever being hacked.
- I was remiss by not reading the order details in transaction emails sent by eBay. By doing so, the transaction could have been preempted.
- My transaction history will show both purchases and sales have always gone smoothly.
- The buyer is cooperating fully in this investigation and has sent me a copy of the offer.
Will you be able to shed some light on this matter from a more technical standpoint? Example; By examining network traffic history, can eBay explain how the buyer received an email offer that I did not send?
Further, it seems to me eBay does not take Seller generated offers seriously enough to protect those of us with less selling experience. As such, please have eBay answer the following questions and then consider revising its approach to include more complete communications:
- Why was the heavily discounted offer amount not shown on the eBay SOLD page?
- Why was a confirming email not sent to the seller that an offer was made to prospective buyers?
- Why was a confirming email not sent to the seller that an offer was accepted by the buyer?
- Why do Emails confirming the sale and payment say nothing about an accepted offer?
Thanks in advance for you assistance in this matter.
Robots-r-us
Jan
Hi @robots-r-us. Hope you had a great weekend! Good news, we heard back from our internal team after their investigation and will be sending you an email of their findings, so please keep a look out. Also below you will find answers to the questions you asked:
- Why was the heavily discounted offer amount not shown on the eBay SOLD page? All offers will show up on the SOLD page once offer is accepted.
- Why was a confirming email not sent to the seller that an offer was made to prospective buyers? Since the buyer’s name is anonymous there is no value in sending out these emails. An email of this volume will reduce visibility of other more important emails.
- Why was a confirming email not sent to the seller that an offer was accepted by the buyer? Seller should receive an ‘order confirmation’ email once offer is accepted by the buyer.
- Why do Emails confirming the sale and payment say nothing about an accepted offer? This is a gap in product today and we will look at addressing in 2024.
Elizabeth,
