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Do humans have Freewill?

Trailblazer

Do humans have Freewill?

Discuss. 

34 REPLIES
Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

i post therefore i am. 

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Do Humans have Deja vu?  Because I swear you aready did this one.

I started at the top and worked my way down...Orson Welles
Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Maybe some people, sometimes. If put in a 8x8 foot locked box, theres the free will to stand or lay down on cement or steel, and to eat or not eat the food put in there for you but thats where it ends. Theres TV and many other things that serve to influance free will. There are laws that limit that free will, some reasonable and others, not so much. Guess it depends on how you look at it.

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

 everybody has free will, but very few people act on it, because they don't want to buck the system.

 

Kurt Vonnegut, book   Breakfast of Champions, has a ironic  passages, that i think drives home the point.  

 

“Dear Sir, poor sir, brave sir." he read, "You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next - and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.  Some persons seem to like you, and others seem to hate you, and you must wonder why.  They are simply liking machines and hating machines.  You are pooped and demoralized, " read Dwayne.  "Why wouldn't you be?  Of course it is exhausting, having to reason all the time in a universe which wasn't meant to be reasonable.”  

Think and Wonder, Wonder and Think ~ Dr. Seuss
Rockstar

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

[ Edited ]
in reply to

Well, now seriously yes, human beings do have Free Will.  

 

However, as we have all seen, it is sad Woman Sad when people can't control themselves and have melt downs and that is when I sometimes think that maybe some don't have Free Will after all.  Woman Embarassed

 

I do pray that people who are having a hard time for whatever reason do find assistance because it is out there and maybe Obamacare will help but I hope no one counts on it.  It ain't lookin too good now is it.   



"If it is once again one against forty-eight, then I am very sorry for the forty-eight." ~ Margaret Thatcher

“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” ― Thomas Jefferson

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Funny enough, I was talking to my son earlier about a movie involving free will, or the lack of it.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stepford_Wives

 

 

**********************************Siggie***************************************

“Not even the apparently enlightened principle of the ‘greatest good for the greatest number’ can excuse indifference to individual suffering. There is no test for progress other than its impact on the individual.” Nye Bevan

Re: Do humans have Freewill?


rules_of_acquisition wrote:

Do Humans have Deja vu?  Because I swear you aready did this one.



It's Deju  vu all over again! or is it de ja poo ?

 

Think and Wonder, Wonder and Think ~ Dr. Seuss

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

[ Edited ]
in reply to

Funny Smiley Very Happy

 

Guest what, it's a real product too.

 

What do ya think that smells like?

I started at the top and worked my way down...Orson Welles

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

About as much free will as any other pleasure seeking, pain avoiding robot does.

"I want to make Gov't as small as my hands while grabbing anything it wants to.".....The Donald

Re: Do humans have Freewill?


rules_of_acquisition wrote:

Funny Smiley Very Happy

 

Guest what, it's a real product too.

 

What do ya think that smells like?


Ha, i can only imagine what it smells like.  They must also sell    De Ja Moo.
the feeling that you've heard this BS  before.  Heart
Think and Wonder, Wonder and Think ~ Dr. Seuss

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

[ Edited ]
in reply to

Ha, might make a good Christmas gift?Man Very Happy

I started at the top and worked my way down...Orson Welles

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Do humans have Freewill?

 

Only Orka's do

----------------------------------------------------------------
Tolerance vs Acceptance.....Embrace the difference
Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

tdreamer56 wrote:

i post therefore i am. 


 

 

Actually that's the answer to do you exist. 

Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Let me put it another way: Atoms and particles behave in probabilistic ways, but our mind is made of atoms and particles... How can free will exist?


This is the dilemma of determinism, we do not know if our actions are controlled by a causal chain of preceding events (or by some other external influence), or if we're truly free agents making decisions of our own choice.

 

Philosophers (and now some scientists) have been debating this question for millennia with no answers. If our decision making is influenced by an endless chain of causality, then determinism is true and we don't have free will. But if the opposite is true, what's called indeterminism, then our actions must be random. But some argue it's still not free will.

 

THen there's compatibilism — the idea that free will is logically compatible with deterministic views of the universe. Advances in neuroscience shows that our brains make decisions before we're even conscious of them. But if we don't have free will, then why did we evolve consciousness instead of zombie-minds?

Quantum physics makes this problem even more complicated by suggesting that we live in a universe of probability, and that determinism of any sort is impossible. "Consciousness seems to be intimately and inescapably tied to the perception of the passage of time, and indeed, the idea that the past is fixed and perfectly deterministic, and that the future is unknowable. This fits well, because if the future were predetermined, then there'd be no free will, and no point in the participation of the passage of time."

So, do we have free will or not?

 

Does GOd have free will? If God exists, how exactly can we have free will?

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Philosophers (and now some scientists) have been debating this question for millennia with no answers.

 

I'm guessing people have free will- but obligations often get in the way of this "free will" stuff. I want to live on a beach and eat crab legs on a daily basis...

 

...and if the question has been debated for millenia- I doubt this crowd (including myself) will have any answers. I think a person should do what's best for themselves without  intentionally harming others along the way.

 

Unless a person lives alone- totally isolated from others- there's no way to fulfill a "Free Will" lifestyle. There's always anothers "Free Will" to take into consideration.

 

 

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Well if our actions are determined by what we focus on and the meanings we attach to that I would say that's quite a bit of free will.

 

Even if what we focus on is somehow pre-determined we still have the freedom to attach different meanings to it and consequently different actions.

"I want to make Gov't as small as my hands while grabbing anything it wants to.".....The Donald
Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

**freethinker_bob** wrote:

tdreamer56 wrote:

i post therefore i am. 


 

 

Actually that's the answer to do you exist. 


actually its simply THE answer, 

Trailblazer

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Not according to Obamacare or anything else they DEEM we "need".

 

If people consider thet is what the fight is all about, considering the strong arm of the law. IRS.

Less items for everyone to see..

Re: Do humans have Freewill?

in reply to

Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt
you represents determinism; the way you play
it is free will.

 ~ Jawaharlal Nehru



The most sublime and profound insight we are capable of is that we are part of a determined universe.

Many Hellenists and later Western esotericists held there is one higher sublime and profound experiential insight: being reborn out of the determined universe.

A common idea of Hellenistic religion-philosophy-myth was that after developing one's thinking and experiencing to most fully appreciate one's embeddedness in a determined universe, one can be lifted even higher, up out of cosmic determinism, beyond the sphere of the fixed stars.

The emperor was divinized at death to become a star, but many cults then grabbed the idea of ascending beyond the stars.  If the emperor was chosen by Fate, initiates escaped and eluded the clutches of Fate, Necessity, and were miraculously and divinely set free from the deterministic cosmic prison.

Godmen were chained and fastened to the material realm, died, and were then lifted up beyond the deterministic material realm -- thus so were those initiates who were lifted up by the godmen.  The levels of initiation and ascension were somewhat standardized (with contention about variations).  Start at bottom and move up through experiencing each level:


9th -- beyond rationality, divine transcendence, transcendent freedom

8th -- fixed stars - timeless cosmic determinism

4th-7th - slow planets

1st-3rd - fast planets

0th - earth - change, time


A miracle happened, the prison doors fell open and the chains fell off, and I was set free.  High philosophical magic may elevate this same sense of 'miracle' as the idea and mystic experience of transcending cosmic determinism, because nothing less than a miracle can lift a personal agent out of the deterministic block universe.

The ancients fully believed we are part of a determined universe, and some went beyond to believe in the greatest and purest miracle of all, that of being lifted outside of the deterministic block universe.  Plotinus' system connects directly to this system, but with different ways of framing the elements; I should read Plotinus specifically on the issue of transcending hiemarmene/Necessity...


Magically/Transcendently Repostulating Freewill for Stability
http://www.egodeath.com/TranscendentlyPostulatingFreewillStability.htm

 

 





 I need a woman 'bout twice my age
A lady of nobility, gentility and rage
A splendour in the dark, lightning on the draw
Who'll go right through the book and break each and every law

I got a feelin'
And it won't go away, oh no
Just one thing and I'll be OK
I need a miracle every day

I need a woman 'bout twice my height
Statuesque, raven-tressed, a goddess of the night
A secret incantation, candle burning blue
We'll consult the spirits, maybe they'll know what to do

And it's real
And it won't go away, oh no
Can't get around and I can't run away
I need a miracle every day

I need a woman 'bout twice my weight
A ton of fun who packs a gun with all that other freight
Find her in a side-show, leave her in LA
Ride her like a surfer riding on a tidal wave

And it's real
Believe what I say
Just one thing that I gotta say
I need a miracle very day

It takes dynamite to get me up
Too much of everything is just enough
One more thing that I gotta say
I need a miracle every day





Religion is a work of art. – Charles T. Smith, philosopher