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Buyer trying to scam double refund

I'm trying to help a new seller, but don't know what his next step should be. It sounds like the buyer (who is an experienced eBay seller with multiple accounts) is trying to scam him on several levels because he's new to eBay and vulnerable. In fact the buyer has almost come right out and said as much several times.

 

I don't know every detail, but as I understand it:

-- The buyer won 2 auctions and then afterwards demanded the seller drop her total shipping cost to $5, when she knew he doesn't offer a combined shipping discount. She aggressively guilt tripped him about how she's disabled, and so expects and deserves extra discounts from all eBay sellers!! (And was super rude too, imho.) She acted like the essential oils she'd bid on were something she was buying for herself to support her own health, but that it was a real financial hardship for her to buy them. He gave in and agreed to charge her only $5 for shipping both items together, thinking that would be the end of it.

 

-- Instead of paying for the 2 oils, she bid on a 3rd bottle of oil, then immediately sent a message to the seller saying she was going out of town for 3 weeks and would pay him for it all when she got back! (Hey lady! Ever hear of a mobile app?!?) She also insisted the shipping cost stay $5, despite the extra item. Again he agreed to her demands for the sake of good customer service, and hoped she'd go away forever, not just for 3 weeks. Lol.

 

-- When she finally paid weeks later, she didn't ask for, or wait for him to send, a combined invoice with the correct shipping cost. Instead she paid for each item separately, thereby overpaying him for shipping by about $3, and making him pay the .30 PayPal transaction fee 3x. He figured this meant she didn't remember/care about the shipping discount, and let it go. She said nothing about it until... 

 

-- ...The day the oils arrived, she started out saying they were fine, but complained he'd intentionally overcharged her for shipping and demanded her $3 immediately. She insulted and bullied him, claiming he was dishonest and she was going to leave negative fb for it. He sent her a partial refund of $3 through PayPal right away. She did not mention any other problems, and again he assumed he was done with her.

 

-- Several hours after he sent the partial refund, she contacted him again, now claiming all 3 oils were SNAD. He'd sent her 3 brand new sealed bottles of essential oil, but she claimed they were not new or sealed, they'd leaked all over, the labels were torn up, and there were scribbles in black marker all over 1 white cap. She even claimed they weren't "new" because they all have the older style labels the manufacturer stopped using in Dec. (Strange that, as she herself has a bunch with the older labels listed for sale, but she calls them all "new"!)

  She ranted about how she couldn't possibly sell them to anyone in that state (Remember her sob story about needing them cheap to use for her own health?) and should be given a 50% refund through PayPal immediately, plus be allowed to keep the oils.

 

-- Shortly after that message, she increased her demand to an immediate 100% refund processed through PayPal (meaning no eBay protection for him), plus she keeps the oils. She refused to send him pictures as proof of the damage, and told him she was making him this generous offer as a favor to him; It only appeared he was getting ripped-off because he's new and inexperienced!!! (Yes. AND because he IS getting ripped off.) She also said he had until the next day agree, or she'd mail them all back in separate mailers, on top of the negative fb she'd already left him. (No offer to remove the neg.)

 

-- 2 hours later she sent another message saying she'd just mailed all 3 items back separately, so as to cost him more for the return shipping! She claimed she'd opened a case with eBay and had sent them pictures of the damaged bottles, and therefore he should send her a full refund by PayPal right away, before things got any worse for him than they already were. She even sent him a Payment Request invoice through PayPal, demanding he send her the money, but it didn't have any info in it to tie it to the original transactions at all! (Probably needless to say that she didn't deduct $3 for the partial refund she'd already received either.) Instead of paying her anything, he waited for the return packages to arrive and for eBay to contact him about the case. 

 

-- So far eBay has not contacted him. Strangely enough there doesn't seem to be any pending cases on file for him at all! It's almost as if she lied about opening a case against him! *gasp* Right. That's probably because she did lie about it. 

 

-- Yesterday the 3 packages showed up. Fortunately she didn't just send empty padded mailers like I'd warned him she might. 2 of the returned bottles were as pristine as when he sold them to her. No sign of the leaking, stickyness, messed up labels or black marks she'd claimed. The 3rd bottle, however, had clearly been swapped out for an older bottle with a damaged label. No other damage to it though.

 

-- Today she started threatening him again, and still demands the refund be sent through PayPal, not eBay, and that doing it that way is somehow to help him.

 

I made sure he understands that's not true, and why it's risky to give refunds through PayPal. How if he'd given her the 50% or 100% refund through PayPal, she could have still opened a case w/eBay and gotten a full refund from them on top of it. (Kinda surprised she hasn't done it yet.)

 

Ideas about what to do next? Should he report her, and for what offense? (I'm not sure how reporting a buyer works, so don't know how to advise him.) Open an eBay case of some kind? Give up and process a full refund through eBay (and eat the cost of shipping both ways + the $3 he already gave her + PayPal fees + the neg fb), and hope she'll dry up and blow away for good this time? 

 

On the bright side, she's very open about having multiple eBay accounts, and what the user IDs are, which made it really easy to block them all!

Message 1 of 37
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36 REPLIES 36

Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

Sure. The face time suggestion was for convenience of not having to go over there - that way you could still see what he sees. 🙂

 

Keep us posted. Return labels with eBay logo tells me we're missing a piece of the puzzle here.

Message 16 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

I forgot to add this to my post from last night:

 


zlygophemous wrote: 

-- Instead of paying for the 2 oils, she bid on a 3rd bottle of oil, then immediately sent a message to the seller saying she was going out of town for 3 weeks and would pay him for it all when she got back! (Hey lady! Ever hear of a mobile app?!?) She also insisted the shipping cost stay $5, despite the extra item. Again he agreed to her demands for the sake of good customer service, and hoped she'd go away forever, not just for 3 weeks. Lol.

 

-- When she finally paid weeks later, she didn't ask for, or wait for him to send, a combined invoice with the correct shipping cost. Instead she paid for each item separately, thereby overpaying him for shipping by about $3, and making him pay the .30 PayPal transaction fee 3x. He figured this meant she didn't remember/care about the shipping discount, and let it go. She said nothing about it until... 

 Another error early in the process here is that since your friend did decide to wait 3 weeks and complete the transaction (vs filing UIDs early on) is that he never sent the buyer a combined invoice with the combined shipping charge he agreed to. He should have done that the day the buyer purchased the items, regardless of whether she said it would be 3 weeks before she paid. That could be why the buyer purchased in 3 separate transactions. Not to say this scammy buyer wouldn't have done it this way anyway, but you should also advise your friend about combined invoices in the future. You know, for decent buyers.

 

 

 


 

Message 17 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

heidi@ebay          trinton@ebay               

 

can you help??

Message 18 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hey everyone, this is some EXCELLENT advice in this thread. Very impressed at the thoroughness and happy to see everyone sharing their wisdom 🙂 @zlygophemous does your friend post on the eBay Community Boards? If you can @mention them here, I can reach out and ensure this is passed along to the appropriate teams to review. Keep me posted, happy to look into this further!

 

 

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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund


@zlygophemous wrote:

@copper.boom wrote:

@zlygophemous wrote:

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

@zlygophemous wrote:

-- 2 hours later she sent another message saying she'd just mailed all 3 items back separately, so as to cost him more for the return shipping!

 

@copper.boom wrote:

She sent them back herself, so how is it costing him more? She voluntarily mailed them. No case attached so no way for her to force your friend to pay return shipping. It's done already.


I double checked with him. Unfortunately HE paid for the 3 return shipping labels. He sent them through eBays system thinking she'd only print 1 of them? (Not sure why he thought that.) So more complications. *sigh* 


@zlygophemous You should re-check with your friend that it wasn't done through a case because it doesn't work well to send a label through eBay messages. If you're saying he sent them "through eBay's system" it sounds like a case - return or SNAD - was already opened.

 

If there is a case (or 3 cases) and he accepted the returns by providing labels then he'll need to refund before the buyer escalates. If he gets 3 defects that will ruin his account.

 

Can you go to your friend's place today and look at his account with him? Or maybe you can use face time so he can show you his account? Seems like he needs a bit more hand-holding on this than originally thought.

 

(Edit for typo)

Unfortunately since he's at work, I just have pictures of the returned packages for the moment. The labels all have the usual Pitney Bowes/eBay advertising around the edges and say "First Class Package Return Service." But he says eBay hasn't contacted him about a case or complaint, and he doesn't see anything in the Resolution Center.


He didn't pay for the labels. Ebay issued them and he will only be billed for the label(s) used.



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 20 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

That would be true if the buyer opened a case but OP says there is no case in the resolution center. But if he sent the labels through eBay, I'm not aware of any way to do that without through the resolution center. 

 

So the  question is, did the nut job buyer open a return in the resolution center with eBay?

 

And another, how exactly did the seller send the labels? The OP said Ms. Nutjob was pushing the seller to refund through PayPal and not eBay, so I'm thinking he did the labels on PayPal. 

 

I never issued a return label outside eBay's resolution center so I don't know how that's done. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 21 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

@zlygophemous Have you managed to get more info from your friend and figure out answers to some of the questions we had? If there are cases opened I'd hate for them to be escalated and your friend get 3 defects. Keep us posted!

Message 22 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

Quick update:

We weren't able to connect yesterday after all. 😞 

 

This morning he sent me a message saying he opened a case last night on the 3rd item, the one that wasn't returned in the same condition. It was closed in his favor. So that much is done. Yay!

 

Of course the downside is she opened a case against him this morning. No details at all on that yet. He's supposed to send me some screen shots. I'll update again later when I know more.

 

Thanks everyone for all the help on this! 

Message 23 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

@zlygophemous

 

 

did you see post #19??   Trinton is with ebay and can help - so you don't have to be the middle man/woman.  

Message 24 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund


@zlygophemous wrote:

This morning he sent me a message saying he opened a case last night on the 3rd item, the one that wasn't returned in the same condition. It was closed in his favor. So that much is done. Yay!

What kind of case did he open?

 

Of course the downside is she opened a case against him this morning. No details at all on that yet. He's supposed to send me some screen shots. I'll update again later when I know more.

If she opened a case for the other 2 items he should refund through the case since he has those items back.


 

Message 25 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

No idea. What I posted is all I know. The screen shots didn't show what kind of case.

Message 26 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

I did. For some reason he won't answer me when I suggest he register for the Community and deal with Trinton. He just asked what the community was and who Trinton was (like I knew everyone here personally), then no more about it since. Kinda making me angry, to be honest. It's the best help he can get, and he won't reach out and take it!

Message 27 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund


@zlygophemous wrote:

I did. For some reason he won't answer me when I suggest he register for the Community and deal with Trinton. He just asked what the community was and who Trinton was (like I knew everyone here personally), then no more about it since. Kinda making me angry, to be honest. It's the best help he can get, and he won't reach out and take it!


@I think Trenton said to @mention your seller on here and he would reach out to him.   It would just be better if they could work it out directly rather than go thru you.  

 

Message 28 of 37
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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund

He did. Rereading posts, I might have misunderstood what Trinton meant? It sounded like my friend would need to be signed up for the Forum first? He's not. (Unless he's taken my advice and done it today without saying so.) But if that's not the case, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to post it!

 

Thanks for reminding me! I'm kinda overloaded with the whole thing right now. 

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Re: Buyer trying to scam double refund


@angelgirl327 wrote:

@zlygophemous wrote:

I did. For some reason he won't answer me when I suggest he register for the Community and deal with Trinton. He just asked what the community was and who Trinton was (like I knew everyone here personally), then no more about it since. Kinda making me angry, to be honest. It's the best help he can get, and he won't reach out and take it!


@I think Trenton said to @mention your seller on here and he would reach out to him.   It would just be better if they could work it out directly rather than go thru you.  

 



He did. Rereading posts, I might have misunderstood what Trinton meant? It sounded like my friend would need to be signed up for the Forum first? He's not. (Unless he's taken my advice and done it today without saying so.) But if that's not the case, please let me know, and I'll be more than happy to post it!

 

Thanks for reminding me! I'm kinda overloaded with the whole thing right now. 

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