Sold an item, and the buyer sent a cheap item through Amazon back, then used the tracking number

[zuked]

So the gist is I sold a gopro on Ebay for $270.  Buyer got it but said there was something wrong with it.  It was fine when I used it last, but after a bit of back and forth, I agree to take a return.  I buy the Ebay return label, and don't hear a thing for a week.  In addition to the label never being used.

During that week, I receive a package of a cheap calculator from Amazon that I didn't order.  I call them up, and they say someone gifted it to me, but won't tell me who.

A few days later, I get a claims or whatever from Ebay saying the buyer sent the item, that I received it, and that they are refunding the buyer.  

I never received the item, so I email Ebay customer service (since the whatever complaint ticket is already closed and I can't respond to it.)  Ebay customer service says they have a tracking that the item was delivered and gives me the tracking number.  And of course the tracking number provided is the Amazon "gift" tracking number.  

So I have emailed customer service and tell them what happened, and they say to send in a declaration that I did not receive it, which I do through the automated system.  here I think everything is going well.

Now fast forward a few days, and Ebay says they didn't receive the declaration and again favor the buyer.  I also notice that this is under a different SR number than the one I originally sent.

I again send all the information, and they keep going back to the tracking number shows it was delivered.  Now I'm on at least 4 SR numbers, which I listed to them, I've talked to a few different people via email, and none of them seems to want to look at anything but the tracking number and say it was delivered.  

Am I screwed?  Is this how eBay works and rewards scammers?

[ittybitnot]

brian@ebay 

Can you do anything to assist this OP?  I just read your response in the weekly chat in answer to a question about this scenario:  "Regarding the specific scenario you've brought up, I'm not familiar with this but it's something I can report. Thanks!"  

Usually, a seller is referred to CS.  I think the OP has had about enough of CS agents NOT helping in this situation, and perhaps once you become familiar with the scenario you can offer some advice. As in other types of "faulty returns" are these also the responsibility of the seller as buyer fraud being "part of doing business?" 

I know you cannot address specific cases so here is a hypothetical one for discussion purposes: 

 I am a buyer and purchase a laptop.
I have it shipped to a re-shipper address.
I file SNAD (ebay allows this now, since a seller is unable to supply documentation the parcel was shipped out of the US.)
I am told to return said item. 
I don't feel like shipping it back to the US, and the label I got was only from the reshipper.

So....

I buy a cheap trinket in the US, and have it shipped to the seller, and use that d/confirmation number for the case.
I get my refund as soon as the d/c is confirmed. 
I get a laptop for the price of cheap cell phone cover or ball point pen. 
Works for me.
Works for ebay.
Is the  seller is thrown under the bus as "part of doing business on the net". ??????

[pburn]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

Is the  seller is thrown under the bus as "part of doing business on the net". ??????

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Sounds about right.

I'll bet there are dozens--hundreds, maybe--of monetized YouTube videos uploaded right now, explaining all the ins and outs of this particular scam.

You know, if a person incorporated all the seller scams and all the buyer scams on reads about on these discussion boards, Facebook, YouTube, etc., that person may never have to actually pay for anything again.

[ittybitnot]

Sounds about right.

Isn't there at least  a bit of "hope"?????   Yeah, I am probably just kidding myself to actually think that.  BTW, the blue was tagged in Post 16.  At any rate the scam seems to be 'tightened up' a bit from the older version where the buyer just ships the return to the local KFC or Burger King in the seller's zipcode.  D/C says delivered, but USPS is on to the gig and will at least provide documentation to say that the parcel was NOT delivered to the seller's address. 

@pburn 

[calntom]

I have not been on the forum very much over the last year as compared to past years. It seems every time I do visit, there is a thread or two concerning this type of scam where the buyer return ships to a random address in the sellers zipcode. 

Now this one where they buy a trinket from Amazon and enter that tracking number in the return case. I mean, the scammer never has to leave his/her couch for this one......   pitiful

eBay needs to get a handle on this stuff and require the buyer to return with the eBay or seller provided label in any cases where that label is available. 

[ittybitnot]

eBay needs to get a handle on this stuff and require the buyer to return with the eBay or seller provided label in any cases where that label is available. 

That is a good idea that might help, but then eBay will have to start demonstrating some positive interest in what exactly is returned as well. It still does not matter what the buyer returns.  They get the refund regardless. 

[brian@ebay]

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

brian@ebay- what else should this seller do when CS is giving them the run around?

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@coffeebean832 I'm happy to review the situation in more detail! Give me until tomorrow afternoon @zuked and I'll let you know what I find. Thanks!

[di2360]

I would call Ebay on the phone.

[ittybitnot]

I would call Ebay on the phone.

How many times, just to be told the same thing?  The OP HAS already communicated with Customer Service.  I think the last one was number 10. 

[brian@ebay]

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brian@ebay wrote:

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

brian@ebay- what else should this seller do when CS is giving them the run around?

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@coffeebean832 I'm happy to review the situation in more detail! Give me until tomorrow afternoon @zuked and I'll let you know what I find. Thanks!

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@zuked I'll send you an email shortly with the details I have, so keep an eye out for it.

[zuked]

Thanks for all the work you put into this Brian.  Hopefully it works out.  But at least this time it feels like someone actually looked at what happened, instead of just saying can't do anything or shipping shows delivered.

[zuked]

Thank you for posting it in the weekly chat.  It sucks that it happened to me, but with the Christmas buying season coming up, I think it's something all sellers and Ebay should be looking to protect against. 

Especially larger quantity sellers who are sending and receiving things on a daily basis.  I'm not a huge seller by any means, may only sell once or twice a year.  So when I receive a mystery package, it really caught my attention.  But I would have to guess that there are many out there that would have just opened and thrown the package and packing slip away.  And really if you get rid of that information, you are kind of screwed because you won't be able to look up the order on amazon.  The order number is really the only thing you would have to be able to reference the delivery.  It doesn't appear on your orders list, or anywhere else that I'm aware of.  

[outdatedrecreated]

This makes no sense. If the return label you provided was never used, then there's no way eBay would refund the buyer. That's not how this works

[zuked]

Also, specifically about Amazon's delivery service.  

I wrote it earlier in this thread.  But there is a way to bypass amazon's delivery service.  They way to do it is to check on an item.  See if there are multiple sellers of the item.  Once you see there is multiple sellers of the item, you go below the add to cart and buy it now buttons.  There is a section that says New and Used (##) from $$ prime free shipping.  If you click on that link, you can see if you buy something from Amazon and delivered through amazon, or select someone that ships it themselves.  

[bargainnation]

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@outdatedrecreated wrote:

This makes no sense. If the return label you provided was never used, then there's no way eBay would refund the buyer. That's not how this works

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This is exactly what eBay is about to let happen according to the OP...  the buyer did not and obviously could not use the shipping label provided by the buyer through eBay since the buyer purchased a cheap trinket from Amazon's and had that shipped to the eBay seller.

The eBay buyer provided the Amazon tracking number to eBay.  The eBay bot can't think so once the carrier showed the tracking number provided by eBay buyer (same tracking number provided by Amazon seller to eBay buyer)  as delivered that was all eBay needed to say that eBay buyer returned item to eBay seller.

This is not a case of he said/she said, eBay can easily confirm/verify this from the comfort of their eBay office.

[autopiacarcare]

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@outdatedrecreated wrote:

This makes no sense. If the return label you provided was never used, then there's no way eBay would refund the buyer. That's not how this works

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@outdatedrecreated- yes, that is exactly how this works.  I can confirm that is exactly how it worked when a repeat scammer did almost exactly this same thing multiple times to us last year.

Whether the return label is provided by the seller or by eBay, eBay does not require the buyer to use that label.

The buyer has the option to input their own tracking number into the return case and eBay will then use that buyer provided tracking number when determining the outcome for the rest of the case - including forcing a refund when that buyer provided tracking number shows a delivery scan to the seller's zip code.

Understandably, eBay has this policy in case the buyer cannot use the provided label for some reason (they don't have a printer, technical problem prevented them from printing it, etc.)  However, it does present a giant loophole that scammers are absolutely aware of and absolutely use to their advantage.

eBay is also very much aware of this loophole and needs to do something to close it while also still assisting legitimate buyers who encounter legitimate problems when trying to use a label provided by eBay or the seller.