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SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

How will this pertain to ebay?

Do sellers have to look up all 50 state tax rates?

Will this cause sellers to leave ebay?

 

https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/nation-world/supreme-court-allows-states-to-collect-sales-tax...

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nana-nana-boo-boo
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

Some states already have a VAT law in place.  (Value Added Tax). 

 

Simply put, it requires residents of that state to claim the value of any item purchased outside of their resident state - including online venues - on their yearly IRS / State tax filing , and to pay the sales tax amount that would have been collected if the purchase was made in their state.  

 

In other words, buy it online and you are required by law to total your purchases for the year and pay your state's sales tax at the time of your IRS filing.

 

There is a lot of cleaning up of existing tax laws that will have to take place.

Message 31 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

My Two Cents; No, you do not have to worry about this at the moment. Yes, this will probably add to the growing number of sellers thinking about leaving online selling.

 

I personally am quite peaved at this ruling. I appreciate you opening the thread so I can vent and put my two cents worth in. I absolutely believe in paying my taxes to whom my taxes are owed; With that said, It is not my job to collect, nor fund, another states enterprise; they are not "My Ceasar".

 

This is the equivalent of taxation without representation and that is what led to the rebellion with the Boston tea party.  We are becoming subjects of all the states rather than the state we reside in. It is tragic, but consistent with the contintual belief that government, even poorly run governments, can run rough shod over people that don't even reside in their jurisdiction.....

 

I collect, report and pay sales tax on all in state transactions. The paperwork and sorting takes me half an hour once a month. According to the ruling, I am now going to have to do this for 49 more states & their municipalities....should ebay require I register with the various states and do the reporting.

 

The modules for sales tax charts are not cheap if you have your own website; think anywhere between fifty to two hundred dollars per state per year depending upon what eCommerce software you use - a boon for software developers. So, what you will end up with is small internet businesses losing more a month for reporting out of state website sales than the various states will be collecting. Now imagine the added burden to a startup and don't forget the time for meeting reporting requirements.

 

Yes...there are exemptions today in some states, but remember this; When there are no limits to what government can force citizens to do, eventually, there will be no limits to what some governments will force you to do. All for the welfare of the "citizen"....

 

Platforms like ebay can provide that built in; which will indeed necessitate higher fees. What you really should worry about is if you have your own website. It will be a larger burden than you think to be able to afford the reporting requirements. Over my 20 plus years of being an entreprenuer, it has never been money that has gotten in the way of my creating a legitimate small business, it has always been the government and huge corporations (think Google, Microsoft, Walmart, Amazon, Various Large Banks Etc) that want to limit your ability to compete. 

 

I remember not 10 years ago when you could build a website and with good fundamental SEO and link development you could create an online buisness that generated 10's of thousands of dollars a month in sales and could compete with the likes of any big box store on an item by item basis. Google destroyed that; and now, unless you have a brickload of cash, you have to pay to play in natural search with adwords advertising to generate sales.....


The best thing you can do is write your congressman and senator or try to get a meeting in person with financials that support the burden it will place on your small business; and hope for legislation that will mitigate your exposure as a small business owner. I have an appointment with mine;  you should do the same.

 

Mid-terms are coming up. If they won't meet with you, meet with the candidates that are running against them. Further, you can meet with your local state legislature representatives - they could simply pass legislation that by law disallowed citizens of your state to comply with any out of state requirement to collect sales tax...imagine how that would look if 10 or 15 state legistlatures decided nope....we're not behind CA, NY, NJ etc forcing our citizens to be their collectors....Congress would be forced to act.

 

Outside of that, there is really nothing any one individual can do beyond simply refusing to comply which would be breaking the law; and I do not recommend breaking the law.

 

Don't sweat it. Take some time to do the above, (i.e. at least send some letters) and then get back to focusing on your business.

 

Take care.

Message 32 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

@amber_resin_fossils

 

I'm not actually a PA seller, I'm in MA. So I've never had to file in PA and it was a shock when I got the letter warning me of penalties. I don't sell over 10K a year in PA though so I'm exempt from paying PA sales tax for now.

 

Message 33 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

I disagree. If something is worth $100. Buyers won't pay $100 plus sales tax or plus shipping or whatever.

If only.

This used to come up with shipping all the time. As though buyers didn't care how much shipping cost as long as they got a deal on the price. Not true.

 


@papermoneyforme wrote:

@fuestor0 wrote:
Essentially we're screwed. i already collect for my state..Now my fees just went up at least 7%

Your fees did not go up.

You collect the tax from the buyer so his cost goes up.


 

Message 34 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES


@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

As I posted on another thread, the days sellers can skip paying taxes is coming to an end. Both for sales and income taxes. Some States are lowering the reporting requirements for 1099s. Non-reporting sellers are going to find it much harder to hide going forward.

 


I agree with this.  I think this will allow more eyes into the online sellers histories and probably cause some issues that were not the intent. 

 

Give the Govt an inch and they take a mile.

 

Good Luck Selling!

 

Message 35 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

Don't you think it is about time politicians work on a part-time basis only? The problem with them working permanently until they are ready to be boxed and delivered to the land of the noise-free is they will never stop thinking of how to tax the citizens of this great country. Here in this states where crossing the Golden Gate bridge is about to cost $8.00, where gasoline is quietly hovering at $4.00, we are the milking cow of those in Sacramento geez! Now, S.C. has jumped into the tax bandwagon, sales already freezing in the North Pole will get even harder come by.
Message 36 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES


@papermoneyforme wrote:

@fuestor0 wrote:
Essentially we're screwed. i already collect for my state..Now my fees just went up at least 7%

Your fees did not go up.

You collect the tax from the buyer so his cost goes up.


That is if ebay/Adyen/Paypal don't try to get a piece. 

Don't be surprised as they take a % of your shipping charge

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nana-nana-boo-boo
Message 37 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

tyler@ebay
eBay Staff (Alumni)

@mallontown wrote:

How will this pertain to ebay?

Do sellers have to look up all 50 state tax rates?

Will this cause sellers to leave ebay?

 

https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/nation-world/supreme-court-allows-states-to-collect-sales-tax...


Hi @mallontown - we have a statement about today's decision here.

 

The Court’s decision is focused on large retailers who engage in a significant quantity of business in a state, and the retailers involved in the case are large, national companies. In other words, it remains to be seen what today’s ruling may mean for small businesses. 

 

As a next step, we are calling on Congress to step in and provide clear tax rules, with a strong small business exemption, to help small businesses take advantage of the Internet to grow and create local jobs. 

 

We expect to have more information and will provide updates as the legal landscape from this becomes clearer. Thanks! 

Tyler,
eBay
Message 38 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

eBay will force the sellers to cover the sales tax free for buyers just as they do for shipping charges no doubt.

Message 39 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

Finally, how is any state/municipality going to demand CHINA pay taxes? HA HA, good luck with that!

 

If they impose it on the marketplace to collect and pay, then the Chinese will be included.  If they impose it on the individual seller, then this is just an 8% - 10% additional price point advantage to the Chinese who (whether they collect it or not) will never pay it.

 

But if eBay has to collect and pay, the Chinese will likely just jump ship and go to a Chinese run marketplace - where every branch of government in the U.S. will be unable to collect any taxes at all.   eBay of course pays plenty of taxes (corporate income tax) on the profit they make from the Chinese sellers.  That means eBay will pay less taxes to government too if the Chinese sell elsewhere. 

 

ChinaMart.com (my fictional Chinese version of Amazon that already exists but I won't name) will have a 10% sales tax advantage over the big U.S. based markeplaces (including this one) to go with their $2.00 and up ePacket shipping advantage they already have.  U.S. sellers lose, eBay loses, government tax revenues at every level lose... and China wins! 

 

The courts now say the states can do this.  Congress can stop it, they retain the right to regulate interstate commerce.  They could ban all interstate sales taxes, if they wanted to.  They won't though.  That's not what government does. 

 

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:  If it moves, tax it.  If it keeps moving, regulate it.  And if it stops moving, subsidize it. - Ronald Reagan.

 

In a couple of decades, they'll probaby offer up a bailout program to Amazon, eBay, et al., in response to the "ecommerce crisis of 2038".   That they created.

 

 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 40 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

You all know what's coming next, right?

 

The argument here is that sellers are doing business in a given state by selling merchandise there.  They therefore feel that THEIR STATE RECIPIENT owes them taxes (not we sellers).  Essentially they're trying to collect more taxes on their own people.

 

But NEXT we'll be hearing that every city, county, or state that we do business in will be requiring us to HAVE A BUSINESS LICENSE for that given locality.  Local businesses will be screaming that we have an unfair advantage because we're not subject to the high costs of local business licenses and fees. 

 

UNFAIR!!!

 

And so the online marketplace will continue to deteriorate. 

 

The media declares that states will retrieve billions in sales taxes.  Never mind the impact on their own consumer's wallets and budgets.  Never mind the way it'll stifle businesses nationwide, including online sellers in their own states. 

 

I myself have done the whole 'bottom line cost' thing when looking for a retail item for myself.  By the time I calculate price plus shipping I'm often near local retail costs, WITHOUT THE WAIT.  But when you factor in another 8% or more, depending on locale, the only thing you're saving is the drive to the local big box store.  Folks living in remote areas won't have that option, but city dwellers certainly will.  This will impact those rural buyers the most.

 

I'm sure that eBay will instill a nationwide calculator that will automatically compute sales taxes to any given buyer. But will they hold and PAY that tax?  Seems like that puts them on another legal plain that they'll avoid if they can manage it.  That leads to the millions of random sellers who suddenly have thousands more in their accounts due to collecting sales taxes.  Will they pay them?

 

I hardly think so.  Many small sellers will simply pocket the fees.  Are they going to get some threatening letter from some other locality across the nation?  I doubt it.  Unless eBay reports sales to individual states those states won't have a clue that a sale was made.  How could they?

 

Sellers will quickly figure this out and reap the benefits.  In fact they'll justify it because it'll offset any decline in sales that they see as it results in the UNFAIR PLAYING FIELD of them having to SHIP items to their buyers nationwide.  Yes, we have an unfair playing field now, weighed against us.  Many of us have employees, warehouses, utility fees, shipping expenses, etc., so the argument that BM stores have an unfair playing field is nonsense.

 

I don't know about you all but we've literally driven across the nation to retrieve items for our inventory.  The associated costs are REAL.  Fuel, lodging, vehicle expenses, food, time lost from selling, and more.  We can do that because of the EXISTING marketplace.  When a buyer has to pay another $600 in tax on a big ticket item, in additon to $1200 in shipping, those sales will disappear.  Sellers will have to discount their prices to stay in business and there go the profits.

 

If we start finding ourselves in some kind of legal jeopardy because of implementation, we'll simply rule out USA sales to all but the states the don't charge sales tax.  If eBay doesn't allow for that then we'll eliminate USA sales altogether and simply focus on our overseas sales, dumping inventory that's prone to the USA marketplace.  The lack of intrusive regulations and the added associated freedoms is one reason we sell online.  When every other state in the union can get its fingers into our business then it's time to end it altogether.  We moved out of California long ago for the exact same reasons.

 

We'll do it again as it relates to online sales.  Craigslist has its issues but we've had a ton of sales via CL.  And CL is full of former eBay sellers, it's obvious from viewing the ads (does eBay still own 25% of CL?).  We've done a lot of buying off of CL over the years and continue to do so today.  No fees, no taxes.

 

Any wonder why eBay has been fighting this taxation issue so vehemently?  They KNOW it's going to hit them hard on the bottom line.  eBay raise the fees to cover losses?  We're gone.  Fees right now take 15-20% of our final price.  That's already far too much.

 

And how long before sellers not only offer free shipping, but add 'we'll pay your sales tax' to their ads in a desparate effort to stay afloat and competitive? 

 

Time to liquidate some online inventory and focus on other venues.

Message 41 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES


tyler@ebay wrote:

@mallontown wrote:

How will this pertain to ebay?

Do sellers have to look up all 50 state tax rates?

Will this cause sellers to leave ebay?

 

https://www.12newsnow.com/article/news/nation-world/supreme-court-allows-states-to-collect-sales-tax...


Hi @mallontown - we have a statement about today's decision here.

 

The Court’s decision is focused on large retailers who engage in a significant quantity of business in a state, and the retailers involved in the case are large, national companies. In other words, it remains to be seen what today’s ruling may mean for small businesses. 

 

As a next step, we are calling on Congress to step in and provide clear tax rules, with a strong small business exemption, to help small businesses take advantage of the Internet to grow and create local jobs. 

 

We expect to have more information and will provide updates as the legal landscape from this becomes clearer. Thanks! 


Don't drink the ebay kool-aid, these taxes will be coming to ebay sellers. Stocks like ebay,etsy,amazon are down because of the ruling

What I want to know is how ebay will implement the taxes being that there are so many different rates all around the country.

"If you found my reply useful, please give it a Helpful.

If my response assisted in resolving your question, please click Accept as Solution."

nana-nana-boo-boo
Message 42 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES

This is gonna be good for your state.  Maybe California can finally payback the $115 Trillion in hand outs they owe. 

Message 43 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES


@djmovers99 wrote:

Would you think that we would at least have until the end of the year before any state implements this tax?  I would like time to dump my inventory.


I was planning anyhow on selling through the 2018 holiday season, then whatever is left just sell off as lots.   I'm buying very little new inventory, except on best sellers. 

previously known as boardnpostsid
Message 44 of 94
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Re: SUPREME COURT RULES THAT STATES CAN CHARGE TAXES ON INTERNET PURCHASES


@oldwestgold wrote:

eBay will force the sellers to cover the sales tax free for buyers just as they do for shipping charges no doubt.


@oldwestgold,  I don't think that's likely.

 

Amazon, Etsy, and Walmart have been collecting the sales tax due *from buyers* at the time of purchase, and remitting it on behalf of their marketplace sellers for sales made to consumers in WA and PA as those two states already enacted Internet Sales Tax laws earlier this year.

 

If eBay doesn't follow suit, they'd be pretty much handing their seller base over on a silver platter to other sites which would be glad to have them.

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