How to recognize an abusive buyer before you're abused.

[powerdriveracing]

Selling on eBay is usually a joy, but occasionally you get a prospective buyer who seems to be great at first, buying lots of items from you, then they find something you are selling and they want a discount, a huge discount, you trust them from the previous transactions but that was to catch you off guard.  Stick to your guns or bottom line, don't give in, or you may get taken for a ride.  Don't block them, they'll find a way to get what they want, and you may not recognize them, and it becomes very hard to protect your interests from them. 

     Big ticket items are usually the target, ones that could be switched during a return and very hard to prove otherwise.   If you make the sale, be sure to record a detailed video and or pictures of the item's condition especially if it is fragile, package it very well, get the extra insurance, and of course video or take images of the process before it leaves your custody.  Include special instructions for the buyer when they receive the shipment, have them take a picture of the shipping container before they open it, if they notice any damage to the container on the surface.   

      If you get messaged by the buyer soon after the items delivery confirmation, that something was wrong with the item.   Do your best to solve the issue without having to deal with a return/ refund.   If you know for sure your item was exactly as you described it, and the buyer claims it was broken before shipping, you have a problem.  Request images of the package when they received it, and anything else to help you decide what actually happened.   You are about to get scammed,  get familiar with the abusive buyer report, because you may have to open a case.  Seller protections are very strong here on eBay, but you must understand the rules, and do not hesitate to communicate with a team member if you have an item returned damaged and not as it was when you sent it.   Set aside at least half the money you earned for the item, in the event you have to offer a partial refund to solve the issue.   

      Be honest and accurate, and take precautions to protect your transactions with documentation and visual evidence, and of course make sure your descriptions are accurate.  Your selling experience on eBay will continue to be profitable and enjoyable, as long as you can provide the proof so the eBay seller protections can be utilized fully in your behalf.   Have a spectacular day.  

[mam98031]

Thank you for taking the time to share all of that.  I'm sorry to hear you had to go through all that, but it is good that you have learned from it as it will help you grow.

I rarely if ever do a partial refund on much of anything.  

As to Seller protection, we do have great seller protection on INRs, but not so much on an INAD.  And certainly not with Chargebacks.

What keeps us all here is that the vast majority of transaction go off without a hitch.  It is a very small percentage that become problematic.

[rockystradingpost]

Your advice not to block in the initial stages makes great sense -- thanks.

[robbie31415]

I don't agree with your advice.

I would never request hoops before return.

I advise them to open a return immediately.

Never issue any partial refunds outside of return.

If they don't like my partial refund offer, they are forced to return.

If return doesn't match how I sent it I will report them for abusive behavior and deduct upto 50%. If they swap the item that's straight 50%.

I don't do anything outside of return as I want feedback protection.

[outfittersupport]

@powerdriveracing  Great advice, thanks for sharing!

@mam98031 You said "And certainly not with Chargebacks."

Why do say that? I assume you mean your funds will be put on hold until you win your "contested" motion, which in that case is part of business. Going through the arbitration process with a financial institution or any institution isn't difficult if you have an overwhelming amount of evidence prior to selling your item.

If a returned item isn't how you sent it, report buyer and do a partial refund for the item if need be.

Your only ammo as a seller is your own due diligence as a seller = collection of evidence that the item you sold was described very well, packaged correctly, shipped correctly, and was in perfect condition prior to being sold. But you need to prove that

(Directions mostly for Higher end items, generally never sold items less than $25)

.Everything on your listing must be described  to a T, as much information as possible

.Take as many pictures as possible to get all angles of the item

.Get insurance on the item

.If the Item sells make sure to drop it off personally at the mail office and request a receipt

.Use USPS expedited shipping if you can

.Over pack every item, fill all air voids in the packing box and make sure it cannot move by shaking the box,

.Review other sellers of similar products, double check your not missing anything prior to listing

.If the item is "used" make sure to list all scratches, dents, dings, ANY DAMAGE and show clear zoomed in pictures of it

.Only sell to the lower 48 states in the US, assuming you live in one

.Take personal pictures (more the better) of every angle, take apart the item if applicable and take pictures of its internals

.Take a picture of the item in the packing box before its covered up and also when its sealed with its shipping label on it

.Also take a personal video of the item and if applicable, its operations whether mechanical or electrical

If you have the above evidence it will be quite hard for someone to swap the item out, claim not delivered, lose a charge-back, but INAD can still cause issues. You can't do anything more than what was listed above but if you have that evidence you will have a strong case to win. In the unlucky event of shipping damage, follow the insurance procedure and it may come down to partial refund or full refund per situation. (Shipping damage happens, and so does "loss" as a business - at least you can put that on your taxs though)

[mam98031 · Accepted solution]

@outfittersupport 

A chargeback dispute is when a buyer files directly with their financial institute that their payment came from on the transaction.  Ebay has great seller protection when a buyer disputes the transaction as an INR or do not recognize the charge.  But when a Chargeback is filed for an INAD reason, they are extremely hard to win.  Sometimes it can be done, but it is hard.  Far too many times the Credit card company allows the buyer to keep the item and they refund the buyer as well.

"...collection of evidence that the item you sold was described very well, packaged correctly, shipped correctly, and was in perfect condition prior to being sold."  Often times you can't really prove most of that.  Because  your listing says the condition of an item is perfect does not mean the item actually is.  It only means you say it is in the listing.  You say it was perfect, the buyer says it isn't.  It is a he said / she said and the buyer wins those.  

[outfittersupport]

@mam98031 

Well I previously owned a business (outside of ebay) and a side business (on eBay) for many years so I've personally dealt with a handful of charge-backs myself over many years and I disagree with some things you've mentioned

When it comes time for arbitration (after you contested the chargeback claim) - which is where a mediator from the financial institution comes between the two parties to listen and view both sides of the dispute. < This is where my above evidence recommendations come into play and its up to the mediator to decide who has a better case. The only way your going to win that is by an overwhelming amount of meticulously documented evidence. How meticulous and how well someone presents this information is unique per case and that will be the very difference of winning or losing a charge back case in general whether that's on eBay or outside of it.

I definitely agree with the below statement..

"But when a Chargeback is filed for an INAD reason, they are extremely hard to win. Sometimes it can be done, but it is hard. Far too many times the Credit card company allows the buyer to keep the item and they refund the buyer as well."

[mam98031]

@outfittersupport 

The seller is never in contact directly with the CCC or any mediator.  Everything that the seller wants submitted to the CCC is provided via Ebay.  The seller never has knowledge of who the financial institute is.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

Until you go to court, no one is likely to view any videos or pictures you provide.

There are few protections against abusive buyers other not selling to them.

What you sell has a huge relationship to whether you attract abusive buyers. We can argue about what the characteristics of merchandise which draw abusive buyers, but some abusive buyers do not need to buy big ticket items in order to make a seller crazy. Some of my worst buyers have bought some of my least expensive items.

If you sell items which draw abusive buyers there is no defense against those who are experienced in fleecing sellers. They know the ins and outs of retail fraud, and how expensive it is to sue them. Law enforcement is busy dealing with organized online retail crime and many of the small time criminals need not be concerned with them.

Short of spider sense and forgoing certain popular products, I know no way to protect yourself.

[outfittersupport]

@mam98031Correct for a charge back on eBay, and incorrect for a charge back outside of eBay.

( Also it can start inside eBay and then go outside of eBay if it goes to court as well.)

[mam98031]

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@outfittersupport wrote:

@mam98031Correct for a charge back on eBay, and incorrect for a charge back outside of eBay.

( Also it can start inside eBay and then go outside of eBay if it goes to court as well.)

---

This forum is for Ebay.  I was not speaking to anything else.  But there are actually other places where what I said holds true as well.  Paypal and other sites similar to Ebay do not allow direct access to the buyers CCC.  I am not now nor was I ever speaking to B&M stores.  Their processes do not impact us here on this subject.

[golfingaddict]

That whole thing about taking photos of you packing the item and special instructions to the buyer and taking videos is simply a waste of time.

If a buyer wants to steal your item, they will.  They will be backed by eBay and/or a credit card if they used one.  eBay is not going to view your photos or your videos.  They don't care what is in your listing.

You can say the item is broken and a piece of garbage and eBay will allow the buyer to claim "not as described" and return the item on your dime.  And there is no guarantee that you will even get the same item back, despite any photos or videos you provide.  News flash, videos and photos can be faked.  eBay is going to side with the buyer and say "we can't take sides"

I know you mean well with your advice.  I also think good photos in your listing and taking care in describing your item, packaging well and providing good customer service goes a long way.

 I am not a fan of "partial refunds"   If a buyer is not happy with an item, I'm not sure how throwing money at them is going to make it better.   I think it is a slippery slope to "bribe" a buyer with a partial refund.  If you have faith in your listing/description/packaging, a partial refund is just a form of extortion.  (in my opinion, of course) 

[outfittersupport]

@mam98031 

Understood and your right. The general eBay chargeback is exactly how you've stated it to be. It also doesn't stop a person from sending a message that you'll be filing a local police report for theft and a report with the postal inspector and then doing so. My last EBAY charge back was canceled within 24 hrs by doing that and of course by having an overwhelming amount of evidence, that is if your dealing with an abusive, unreasonable buyer. eBay sided in my favor and its because I was over the top as a seller with all possible evidence one could get, and also involving outside intervention.

INAD claims are the issues on eBay, the rest of the claims can be defended. It chalks up to the extent of how far the seller is willing to go to prevent fraud or abusiveness prior to it happening and how well they know how to defend themselves during those situations. (Regardless though there will always be some kind of loss in business.)

[johnson_junk_company]

You should definitely block and report as an abusive buyer anyone who is bullying you for a lower price, regardless of previous interactions.