Empty Box Scam (Round 2)

[billiards74]

Buyer purchased a $2700 Rolex from me about 3 weeks ago. Then, claimed the old "I received an empty box" routine.

After about a week of losing sleep and worrying about what eBay was going to do, they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor. Less than 24 hours later, eBay called me and said that, not only were they reversing the case, the buyer is no longer a registered user of eBay. Great. I won the case.

Fast forward one week later...

I get an email from PayPal. The buyer opened the same case with them.

So, I provided PayPal with the following information:

Local police report #

IC3 case #

Postal Investigation #

eBay case # and disposition

Buyer's police report # (made online outside of his jurisdiction)

Additional police report # for a WalMart claim made in Dec. 2015 (similar circumstances. Again, made online outside his jurisdiction)

Detective's name who wrote the report

After speaking with the rep from PayPal, I'm pretty much assured that the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on here.

Anyone else have similar experiences? Outcome?

[superior-quality4less]

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@prefontained wrote:

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@superior-quality4less wrote:

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@billiards74 wrote:

Why are you arguing with me??? I'm just telling you what PayPal said. 

AGAIN!!! I have NO CLUE as to how eBay or PayPal handled refunding (or not) the buyer. The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

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Arguing? I just stated what the e-mail said. Geez!

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I don't think that's the issue. I think it's because several people in a row all said the same thing to the OP so it probably felt like he had to defend himself. Even if it wasn't your intention to argue (and I'm assuming it wasn't from your above reply!), that is kind-of how it reads as someone goes through the thread.

OP's probably a bit on edge, to boot, just dealing with the situation.

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This was my first post in this thread, so I don't see how it could be construed as arguing. 

I thought maybe the OP missed the part where ebay stated they refunded the buyer, so I was just pointing it out.

[blackbird*singing]

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@superior-quality4less wrote:

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This was my first post in this thread, so I don't see how it could be construed as arguing. 

I thought maybe the OP missed the part where ebay stated they refunded the buyer, so I was just pointing it out.

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And I completely believe your intentions were good / to help!! I was just offering another point of view to maybe offer insight as to why the OP got upset. If yours was the only post I don't think anyone would have blinked. But as several people all said the same thing (you were unlucky enough to be last in the line), the level rose a bit from the former calm.

Not a big deal and I'm sure all is good. 🙂

[myangelandmyprincess]

I'd more believe that whatever rep told the op the buyer hadn't been refunded was wrong 

[tarpedge]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I'd more believe that whatever rep told the op the buyer hadn't been refunded was wrong 

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No, the PayPal rep was right: PayPal DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!!

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@billiards74 wrote:

The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

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eBay did:

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Dear xxxxxx,

We've reviewed all the details of the case, and we have closed the case in the buyer's favor with a full refund

Sincerely,

eBay Customer Service

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[tarpedge]

eBay cannot reverse a refund. Here's the copy-and-paste eBay reps use to explain this to your buyer:

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Hello [Service Request.Account] ([Service Request.Contact Email Address]),

For security reasons, we're not able to take the money out of your PayPal account. To return the money, please follow these steps:

1. Log in to your PayPal account:
http://www.paypal.com

2. Click "Send Money" at the top of the page.

3. Enter who you want to pay and the amount.

4. Select "Goods," and then click the "Continue" button.
Note: Don't select the "eBay Items" option--this won't work because this is a repayment.

5. In the space to provide a message, please enter something like "Repayment for eBay [Item Title]" so the seller knows what this payment is for.

6. Click the "Send Money" button.

Thanks,
eBay

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[blackbird*singing]

As above poster mentioned - maybe the refund never made it to the buyer as the person investigating the claim put a hold on it.

And when it was noted that they said "they" didn't issue a refund, PayPal could easily have been referring to eBay, not just themselves (PayPal).

Ultimately it really doesn't matter. PayPal is saying there is no refund which is why buyer was able to open a claim. Hopefully the seller will win this claim - quickly!

[cad777864]

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@billiards74 wrote:

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@tarpedge wrote:

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@billiards74 wrote:

After about a week of losing sleep and worrying about what eBay was going to do, they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor.

Less than 24 hours later, eBay called me and said that, not only were they reversing the case, the buyer is no longer a registered user of eBay. Great. I won the case.

Fast forward one week later...

I get an email from PayPal. The buyer opened the same case with them.

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Is this the timeline?

1. eBay ... ruled in the buyer's favor.

• So the buyer got a full refund.

2. 24 hours later, eBay ... reversing the case, the buyer is no longer a registered user of eBay.

• So the buyer still has the refund.
• And eBay has to pay the seller out-of-pocket.

3. one week later ... buyer opened the same case with [PayPal]

• Why? The buyer already got a full refund from eBay through PayPal.

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PayPal informed me that the buyer did not receive a refund.

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I am so relieved for you Billards, i have been watching this, and now i have a idea to help stop the "THE EMPTY BOX SCAM" after this.  

By the way, i am FED up with ebay not requiring buyers who file claims to not show pics.  Sellers need to unite and insist on buyers showing photos of what needs to be shown.  There response to when i ask why they don't require buyers to show pics is  "We want to trust the buyer is telling the truth"  all the while sticking it to the bum of the seller.  

[secretsquirrelisnowhere]

What kind of picture proves an empty box?

[ecwolf]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I'd more believe that whatever rep told the op the buyer hadn't been refunded was wrong what the rep needed to say to get OP off the phone.

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FTFY

I will say the "buyer" has a boatload of nerve opening up another claim to get refunded if he's already been refunded once.

[chrysylys]

And though all this, we still don't know what was in the box when it arrived at the buyer's address or where the watch is now.

Schrodinger's Watch, I guess.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@tarpedge wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I'd more believe that whatever rep told the op the buyer hadn't been refunded was wrong 

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No, the PayPal rep was right: PayPal DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!!

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@billiards74 wrote:

The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

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eBay did:

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Dear xxxxxx,

We've reviewed all the details of the case, and we have closed the case in the buyer's favor with a full refund

Sincerely,

eBay Customer Service

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If eBay refunds the buyer when. A Buyer wins a case it comes from the PayPal transaction. Thus the refund goes through PayPal. If it's a courtesy refund I could see PayPal knowing nothing about it but that's not what the eBay case said. It said it was closed in favor of the buyer that's when the refund comes from the sellers PayPal transaction.   When a case is reversed generally the seller is given a courtesy refund through eBay the refund to the buyer is generally not reversed.  Maybe sense this was such a large amount eBay didn't want to eat their own mistake 

[d-k_treasures]

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@prefontained wrote:

As above poster mentioned - maybe the refund never made it to the buyer as the person investigating the claim put a hold on it.

And when it was noted that they said "they" didn't issue a refund, PayPal could easily have been referring to eBay, not just themselves (PayPal).

Ultimately it really doesn't matter. PayPal is saying there is no refund which is why buyer was able to open a claim. Hopefully the seller will win this claim - quickly!

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Curious as to what the OP has as his ebay refund method set as. Mine is set to a CC - NOT PP.

[billiards74]

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@d-k_treasures wrote:

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@prefontained wrote:

As above poster mentioned - maybe the refund never made it to the buyer as the person investigating the claim put a hold on it.

And when it was noted that they said "they" didn't issue a refund, PayPal could easily have been referring to eBay, not just themselves (PayPal).

Ultimately it really doesn't matter. PayPal is saying there is no refund which is why buyer was able to open a claim. Hopefully the seller will win this claim - quickly!

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Curious as to what the OP has as his ebay refund method set as. Mine is set to a CC - NOT PP.

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My refund method is set to PP. However, once I realized this guy was trying to pull a scam, I removed all my funds from PP, closed my bank account linked to PP, and opened a new one. 

Just curious, what does setting it to CC do for you???

BTW, I did win the case.

[emerald40]

Just curious, what does setting it to CC do for you???

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It allows the buyer to do a chargeback through their credit card company.

[d-k_treasures]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Just curious, what does setting it to CC do for you???

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It allows the buyer to do a chargeback through their credit card company.

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emerald - we're talking about the ebay refund reimbursement setting.