Empty Box Scam (Round 2)

[billiards74]

Buyer purchased a $2700 Rolex from me about 3 weeks ago. Then, claimed the old "I received an empty box" routine.

After about a week of losing sleep and worrying about what eBay was going to do, they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor. Less than 24 hours later, eBay called me and said that, not only were they reversing the case, the buyer is no longer a registered user of eBay. Great. I won the case.

Fast forward one week later...

I get an email from PayPal. The buyer opened the same case with them.

So, I provided PayPal with the following information:

Local police report #

IC3 case #

Postal Investigation #

eBay case # and disposition

Buyer's police report # (made online outside of his jurisdiction)

Additional police report # for a WalMart claim made in Dec. 2015 (similar circumstances. Again, made online outside his jurisdiction)

Detective's name who wrote the report

After speaking with the rep from PayPal, I'm pretty much assured that the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on here.

Anyone else have similar experiences? Outcome?

[memphiskansasgirl123]

So how did the buyer pay?

[ittybitnot]

So how did the buyer pay?

Obviously via the Pal, or the new claim would not be allowed. If the payment was funded with a credit card, PayPal is going to roll over on this one as opposed to taking the hit from a crook. 

[llllady]

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@memphiskansasgirl123 wrote:

So how did the buyer pay?

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Might have been through a bank account.

[hafoster]

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@billiards74 wrote:

As I said before, the buyer did not receive a refund from eBay.

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Then what does

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billiards74 wrote here:

After about a week ... eBay ... finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor.

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mean, if not a full, irreversible $2,700 refund to the buyer for empty-box-no-need-to-return?

[billiards74]

I have absolutely no idea how eBay handled the refund portion of this claim with the buyer. For all I know, they could have put the refund on hold pending their "Buyer Risk Assement Team's" final investigation. I do know, however, that upon speaking with the PayPal representitive, I was informed that the buyer had not been issued a refund.

In the mean time, I did get back in touch with PayPal. After speaking with a supervisor within the claims resolution department, this case has been closed in my favor.

[*eponymous*]

they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor.

eBay issuing a refund generates the "won" notice to buyer and seller inside the case, an eBay message to both, and an email notice to the buyer of the refund.

How did eBay rule in the buyer's favor but not issue a refund to the buyer?  That is not the how the process works.

[billiards74]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor.

eBay issuing a refund generates the "won" notice to buyer and seller inside the case, an eBay message to both, and an email notice to the buyer of the refund.

How did eBay rule in the buyer's favor but not issue a refund to the buyer?  That is not the how the process works.

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AGAIN, I have no idea how they did it. All I know is that the PP rep said that the buyer had not been issued a refund.

[ymeagainlord]

Maybe an actual person in the high value claims put a hold on it pending their own investigation into the buyer's record

[tarpedge]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

they finally came back and ruled in the buyer's favor.

eBay issuing a refund generates the "won" notice to buyer and seller inside the case, an eBay message to both, and an email notice to the buyer of the refund.

How did eBay rule in the buyer's favor but not issue a refund to the buyer?  That is not the how the process works.

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Example:

eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.

We issued a full refund of $142.50 on May 24, 2016 to the buyer. As described in the eBay Money Back Guarantee, the refund includes the purchase price, plus original shipping. This amount will be deducted from your PayPal account or charged to your preferred reimbursement payment method.
Decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favor.
Comments:
The buyer claimed that they received an empty box.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/2/8/m-p/25599003

@billiards74 did you receive such a message when your case was ruled in the buyer's favor?

[billiards74]

This was the initial response I got from eBay when they ruled in favor of the buyer:

Dear xxxxxx,

I am writing you today regarding the Rolex Datejust  (eBay Item #: xxxxxxxxxx) that you recently sold on eBay. After reviewing your case, I understand that you are concerned about the resolution of this case. I understand how frustrating this situation is and I want to partner with you to get everything resolved.  I appreciate your patience while we work on your case.

We've reviewed all the details of the case, and we have closed the case in the buyer's favor with a full refund because the buyer has provided the necessary documentation required. Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures. I realize that this transaction has not gone as expected, but I hope I have been able to explain why this happened and what you can do on future transactions so we can better protect you. Thank you for your professionalism and your continued business here on eBay.

If you have any further questions with this case please feel free to reach out to us and we will be happy to address any concerns with you.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxx

eBay Customer Service

Then, the following day I got this message:

eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.

Comments:
This item isn't eligible for eBay Buyer Protection. You don't need to do anything else. Because this claim doesn't apply, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed. Note: It may take up to 24 hours for these updates to reflect in your Seller Dashboard.

You can also view the details of this case in the Resolution Center.

[superior-quality4less]

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@billiards74 wrote:

This was the initial response I got from eBay when they ruled in favor of the buyer:

Dear xxxxxx,

I am writing you today regarding the Rolex Datejust  (eBay Item #: xxxxxxxxxx) that you recently sold on eBay. After reviewing your case, I understand that you are concerned about the resolution of this case. I understand how frustrating this situation is and I want to partner with you to get everything resolved.  I appreciate your patience while we work on your case.

We've reviewed all the details of the case, and we have closed the case in the buyer's favor with a full refund because the buyer has provided the necessary documentation required. Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures. I realize that this transaction has not gone as expected, but I hope I have been able to explain why this happened and what you can do on future transactions so we can better protect you. Thank you for your professionalism and your continued business here on eBay.

If you have any further questions with this case please feel free to reach out to us and we will be happy to address any concerns with you.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxx

eBay Customer Service

Then, the following day I got this message:

eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.

Comments:
This item isn't eligible for eBay Buyer Protection. You don't need to do anything else. Because this claim doesn't apply, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed. Note: It may take up to 24 hours for these updates to reflect in your Seller Dashboard.

You can also view the details of this case in the Resolution Center.

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It says they refunded the buyer.

[billiards74]

Why are you arguing with me??? I'm just telling you what PayPal said. 

AGAIN!!! I have NO CLUE as to how eBay or PayPal handled refunding (or not) the buyer. The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

[blackbird*singing]

Maybe eBay reversed the refund when case was resolved in seller's favor the next day and NARUd the buyer. Or perhaps when the buyer won the case, the refund took 24hrs to issue, therefore it was easy to reverse having not gone through by the time the case decision was reversed the next day.

There are several possible reasons why eBay could say they refunded the buyer, the next day changed to rule in seller's favor, and PayPal says no refund was issued...

I think OP's going through enough here. No need to beat up on him for repeating what PayPal said regarding a refund not being issued the buyer's account.

[superior-quality4less]

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@billiards74 wrote:

Why are you arguing with me??? I'm just telling you what PayPal said. 

AGAIN!!! I have NO CLUE as to how eBay or PayPal handled refunding (or not) the buyer. The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

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Arguing? I just stated what the e-mail said. Geez!

[blackbird*singing]

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@superior-quality4less wrote:

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@billiards74 wrote:

Why are you arguing with me??? I'm just telling you what PayPal said. 

AGAIN!!! I have NO CLUE as to how eBay or PayPal handled refunding (or not) the buyer. The PayPal rep said that THEY DIDN'T REFUND THE BUYER!!! Nothing to argue!!!

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Arguing? I just stated what the e-mail said. Geez!

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I don't think that's the issue. I think it's because several people in a row all said the same thing to the OP so it probably felt like he had to defend himself. Even if it wasn't your intention to argue (and I'm assuming it wasn't from your above reply!), that is kind-of how it reads as someone goes through the thread.

OP's probably a bit on edge, to boot, just dealing with the situation.