Ripped off by yet another buyer! Ebay's Buyer Wins no matter what policy.

[esell-resell]

Has this happenned to anyone else?

I sold a Computer Server to a buyer on Ebay, this guy phoned me, we discussed everything about the server and shipping. Now this guy was cheap I could tell just by him whinning about how much the shipping would be and how long it would take.

So me being a nice person and I know what it is like to have to wait and wait for my package, I told him to send me $90 and I would express ship it out to him and he would have it in 3 - 4 days. He agreed and sent me the extra $90 plus I gave him a deal on the server $169.99 , when I could have easily got $200. The server weighs 70lbs and is 26"longX19"highX9"wide and has to be shipped in it's proper sitting place so I had to label it with THIS SIDE UP stickers and also HEAVY stickers (70lbs) and alot of FRAGILE AND HANDLE WITH CARE stickers. It cost me $280.00 to ship it to him (no lie I have the receipt from UPS on my account) and only charged him $90. When I packaged the server I did it at the UPS office that I go to all the time and the UPS agent helped me actually. I wrapped it in packing cardboard and used a bubble packing envelope for extra cushion on the back of the tower server so that none of the conections would be broken. It was then triple wrapped with cardboard boxes customly made top fit tight around the server and several layers of red Tuck Tape were used to seal it all up.

The buyer received it I believe 6 days later because some of the paperwork for the border ( Canada to USA) were not proper so it took a few more days. When his even NORMAL shipping, like the cheapest from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada to New York USA would have been $133.00 and would have taken 2 - 3 weeks to get there. Remember he only paid $90?

Anyway 3 days after he received the server he sends me a message that it was damaged during shipping because it was not packaged properly and he wants all his money back and also the shipping money. In my listing I had listed no returns or exchanges. I want all of you to know that I have sold many of these units and I always, ALWAYS run a system check on them before shipping them out and I have never had a problem. So I replied to him that I most certainly did package it properly and I asked him to send me pictures please and I also asked him why he would accept a package that was damaged. He would not respond or nor did he send any pictures.

Yesterday I received a buyer complaint thing from Ebay and Paypal puts a $179.99 hold on my account. I responded to the complaint and explained everything in detail and informed the buyer that I would be contacting Ebay and UPS this morning.

This morning I woke up a little later than usual 11am and noticed that the buyer had already escalated the complaint with Ebay at 6am. I immediately phoned Ebay and spoke to someone in the Ebay Buyer Protection department and I explained everything to the rep and also that I packed it in front of the UPS agent who helped me and that the buyer would not send me any pictures, and I expressed to the rep that I think what the buyer did was buy a different server locally because I noticed on his account that a few days after he bought my server, he was buying Tape drives for a completely different server, and after speaking with him on the phone he had said that he was in need of a server badly because they did not have one.

So here is what the Ebay rep did during the phone call I had with him. He ruled in the buyers favor and now the buyer can take 7 - 14 days to ship it to me and he can send it anyway he wants, so I will be waiting for 4- 6 weeks at the very least to get back a BROKEN server that has now cost me 280.00$ in shipping and is probably now worth nothing because here is what I believe happenned the buyer found a server locally and then read the buyer protection policy and then damaged the server ON PURPOSE then filed the claim. I know I cannot prove it 100% but I know that is what happenned.

So now I am out over $550.00 and apparently there is nothing I can do about it. I am sooo tired of getting ripped off on Ebay by buyers that LIE and Ebay rules in there favor all the time. I have 2 kids and this is christmas time and this extra money is for gifts for them, I am so UPSET right now with Ebay that I am about ready to quit selling on here completely.

I go out of my way to ENSURE that items are packed EXTRA well so that damage does not happen, and now I get ripped off by some goon that uses the policy to get away with it.

BEWARE SELLERS this can happen to you.

I think Ebay needs to wake up and change some of this NON-SENSE policy loop holes that these scammers use to scam you out of money. Oh and get this that buyer can now leave me NEGATIVE feedback but I cannot do the same to him, I can either leave positive or no feedback!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

[gentleyeti]

I'm sorry for the loss. Do you have a camcorder that can proove it was working while it was in your hands. Also, you should mention in your auctions that any accidents via mailing are not your fault and buy insurance.

I sell great clothes at low prices and haven't run into this yet...or not as bad... I get the freeloader who wants a few bucks back for the zipper not working when I have video footage of it working.

[entanglingtreasures]

This has happened to me "over "50 time and eBay alway favors the buyer.

I don't understand how they can get a FULL REFUND and keep the product.

eBay Seller protection is a full of crap. 

I'm outraged!!! 

[dvrkid2012]

Yes it takes all types out there.  it's the public we are dealing with  Plse keep one eye open and one ear close to the ground

Enjoy

Rima

[wilcoxgibbman]

This is a BIG eye opener for me!  I joined eBay back in 2004 and have only used it a few times so my rating is still real low.  I recently retired and want to move to Costa Rica or the Philippines where the cost of living is less.  So, I thought I would try selling a couple things on eBay.  Anyway, I really need your advice concerning this:   I decided to sell my cherished, vintage Amiga computer for a fixed price of $700 (plus shipping).  It has languished as a listing for about 2-3 weeks.  Then yesterday I received a full price offer.  This morning the buyer submitted payment via PayPal but PayPal has a HOLD on the funds for 21 days.  I had to confirm my identity on PayPal this morning after already having my bank account, email, home address and phone number confirmed.  Now I am afraid to ship this computer to the buyer.  I have left him voice messages and sent email in an effort to confirm the shipping address and to try to determine if he is legit.  He is not responding to any messages I leave asking for a call back.  He has no history with eBay, his account was established the very day he submitted his offer to me.  I realize he does not have to contact me but wouldn't a reasonable person want to do that if they are spending 700-bucks for a vintage computer.  After reading all of these comments, I can kind of see this one coming...  Red flags all over the place.  Brand new account with eBay and he's not responding to voicemails, emails or text messages.  Plus, PayPal is holding the freakin money for 21 days.  I thought about driving from Phoenix to California to personally deliver the computer but its a 10 hour drive one way.  In order for PayPal to release the funds sooner, the buyer has to confirm delivery and something tells me this guy is not going to do that.  I don't trust people who will not communicate, especially after they receive multiple requests for a call back.  If I do not feel comfortable with this buyer can I just cancel the whole transaction and have his payment refunded? 

Additionally, I auctioned off a Network Extender and the bids got up to $300.  The winning bidder was another brand new eBay'er who joined eBay the day before he started submitting bids.  He submitted 4 bids and won.  He did not pay.  On day two he had still not responded to a couple of messages so I started calling.  He would not answer or respond to messages.  So, I sent him a text, since a lot of younger people would rather text than talk.  He texted back that he "purchased else where".  But of course he couldn't take the time to tell me, I had to chase him.  He had no intention, apparently, of honoring his part of the agreement.  With eBay, buyers seem to have no responsibility and are not accountable for anything.  Kind of like Caveat Emptor in reverse. 

[sineaterdoodah]

okay,for the first computer,you recieved a completed payment,is that correct? even with the funds on held,you are still allowed to access the funds needed to ship,i believe,but i will check for you.

make sure you get  a DC ,and use signature confirmation,id required as well. if you choose not to use emails label system( i advise that you do,it's substantially cheaper!),make sure you input those DC numbers into the item on your sold page,to protect yourself.

it's very possible he found your item via google,and joined here just to buy it,we all start somewhere ,right? i've had many newbies join just to buy a rare movie on my auction list,never had a problem,and some have become repeat customers.

you DO need to ship this item,and if you do what i'm saying,you will be protected.

as for the second one,file an unpaid item claim,so you get your fees back,and the buyer gets a strike on their account .

now,have yougot all your seller settings in order? i'll check back and see if you need any help,okay?

i'm barri,and this is a posting id,i've sold here for many years,and i'd be glad to help you out! 🙂

[wilcoxgibbman]

Hi Barri,

What's a DC?  Why pay $15 for a shipping label when I have the buyer's address which is confirmed in PayPal?  Yesterday I visited a mailbox place and got an estimate for shipping via FedEx Ground since UPS has such a horrible reputation for throwing stuff around.   Yes, you correct (kinda).  I did NOT receive a completed payment - PayPal did.  The funds are marked "unavailable" and on hold for 21 days.  I am not able to access even $1 for shipping, in spite of all my information being confirmed with PayPal; address, phone number, email, bank account - it's all verified and confirmed.

Again, I would not be stressing about it if it were an item valued at only a few dollars but this is 700 bucks and the buyer is unwilling to communicate with me in spite of repeated messages I have left.  Not even email or text.  The delivery could go smoothly with the signature being captured, etc but that is no guarantee that the buyer won't fabricate a problem and attempt to get a refund before I would even get the machine back.  I really wish there was someone I could talk to about it because I'm pretty stressed out.  I think calling ebay would be a waste of time and "if" the buyer requests a refund for whatever reason, from what I am reading in these blogs, ebay always seems to side with the buyer.

Doesn't the buyer have to confirm delivery for PayPal to release the hold on those funds?  What if he doesn't do that.  Again, I have no idea who I am dealing with, with this buyer except that he has no history and will not communicate.  Is there som law which states I am required to ship to a buyer I don't feel comfortable with?  Apparently there is no law preventing people from bidding and not paying.  Already experienced that one.   That's the risk you take as a seller on eBay?  It sure seems to be happening a lot to a whole lot of people.   If I ship to this guy and it goes bad, that will be a 100% failure rate for two stupid deals.  I'm just trying to **bleep** this one in the bud but realistically, there is no way I can protect myself against people who intend to rip you off. 

I very much appreciate your expertise.   Just out of curiosity, is there any kind of mechanism on eBay where a seller can go on record about a transaction before shipping so if it goes sideways at least there is a record of it?

[sineaterdoodah]

okay,first, DC is a delivery confirmation number,ebay calls it a tracking number,but it isn't. however it IS necessary,along with sig confirmation,for your own protection with an item that sold at that price. and just so you know,you'll be told that you don't NEED sigconfirm unless it's over 750,but in my own experience,if it's more than $150,i pay the extra to protect myself.get it,no matter who you choose to use for shipping,and input those numbers to the auction asap.

second,your money is being held because you don't have enough experience,in their eyes,especially for a high dollar item,in a high fraud category(no offense intended). the other reason that you want sigconfirm is what you asked about. if the buyer signs,that confirms delivery,so you're covered on that.

my point about completed payment was phrased badly. does it say that the transaction is complete in paypal,and NOT pending?because if it's completed,you SHOULD be able click the ship button,but let me do a bit of checking with a board friend on that,just in case i'm wrong.

as for the buyer creating a problem after the sale,well...yeah,it's one of the risks of selling and shipping here.and the buyer not communicating..well,they're new. so they may not know to check their ebay messages,and they don't always show up on a buyer's email. and the texts? well..you're a stranger. if they have any sort of block,they may not have seen that either. or they may  not have checked ANY recent messages.don't panic on that yet.

did you file the unpaid dispute on the other buyer yet/ you need to,or you'll lose your FVF fees. that's also the issue with just canceling the vintage puter sale,you can't for one thing,without the buyers permission. if you refuse to sell,that buyer can leave you negative feedback,and probably will. if that happens,you'll go on restriction immediately.

those fees add up,and if you don't follow policy,you pay. and they'll take it,whether you think they should or not,because that's part of what you agreed to as a user of eay.

now,on the BRIGHT side. if the buyer has any issue with the puter,you can tell them to return for refund. DO NOT give them a partial refund,period.and you come find me,or you go to the auction listings board and tell them i sent you,if i'm not available.

now,let me scurry off and see what i can find out for sure on shipping costs being released,and i'll be back later this evening,okay?

and we,the volunteers on the boards, we ARE here for you to talk to. mind you, we may yell at you occasionally,but we do beat the heck out of calling ebay,lol!!

and you're welcome. if i can't help,i'll find someone who can,it's what i do.:)

[sineaterdoodah]

okay,take a look at this link

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/ebay-payments-learn-more

this is the pertinent part

If you print labels on eBay  for USPS shipping (domestic or First Class international), up to $15 of your buyer's funds will be available immediately to cover shipping costs for any order less than $50. When the total order cost exceeds $50, up to 30% of your buyer’s funds will be available immediately to cover shipping costs. If you use PayPal label printing and select USPS postage you'll need to pay for shipping when you print the label, but we’ll deposit the reimbursement back to your PayPal account within 24 hours. Funds from your buyer will not be made available in advance, to cover shipping costs, for items sent through UPS or Canada Post.

i'll check back later,time for masterchef!

[wilcoxgibbman]

Hi Barri,

Thanks so much for taking the time helping me figure this out.  Those cooking shows are addictive, aren't they.  They make me hungry!

Ok, on the DNP (did not pay) issue, yes I opened a thing in the resolution center on 7/22/13.  I remember reading something about having to wait 4 days and then closing the issue.  I would have thought eBay would close but I guess I am supposed to, regardless of outcome or reason for nonpayment.  So, I am watching that daily.

Concerning my buyer for the computer, I received a "BLANK" eBay message from him this afternoon.  Yes, blank.  There was no text in the message.  I checked it out, it's not even possible to send a totally blank eBay message.  What he did was click 'respond' to a message I had sent him two days ago and then typed in, "Dear wilcogibbman," and nothing else.  Then he clicked 'send'.   Does that make any sense to you?   When I listed this item, I presumed a reasonable level of sophistication in buyers.  I mean, if a person has the money and desire to buy a vintage computer for $700, they are probably not going to be some flake, right?  That's where the communication comes in because it enables you to get some idea of who you are dealing with.  In this case I am absolutely 100% in the dark and it makes me very nervous.

PayPal states, once tracking number and DC, etc is inputted, my funds will be released sooner, "if the buyer does not report any issues".  I have read comments where the buyer reports an issue 30, 45 or even 60 days after DC and they get a refund.  Also, from what I have read, I have no control over a buyer getting a partial or full refund.  That seems to be governed by eBay / PayPal.

Barri, I have left voice messages for this guy for two straight days, sent two messages via eBay and two text messages to his cell phone.  Every time providing him with my contact number and asking him to call.  He will not communicate with me.  And then this afternoon I get the cryptic eBay message from him?  My intuition is that this guy is up to no good.  Anyone who is sincere and not playing games would return phone calls, text message, emails or something.

It is so easy to mess up a computer.  I have owned and cherised this computer since 1997, there is not one thing wrong with it.  I have pics in my listing and everything.  My intuition is that this guy is going to get it, everything will be fine and then he'll break something.  For example, the video outputs to the older RGB type of monitor.  This is the kind of thing I expected to be able to be cleared up in two minutes in communication with a buyer.  But that is only possible if the buyer communicates.  Then I get back my computer which is broken plus I am out whatever fees eBay / PayPal charges.   I seemed to have gotten myself in a mess simply by deciding to sell an old but cherished computer.

By the way, PayPal took 2.9% for some credit card fee which the buyer declined to pay.  $23 in my case and they didn't give me the option of opting out of the fee.  Funny how they can't wait 21 days for that.

Thanks again for allowing me express frustration and concern. 

[sineaterdoodah]

i tell you what,i'm going to ask a friend to come over here and read your posts,and see what he thinks. he knows computers,and can probably give you better advice on this sale. and sometimes trusting your gut IS the right thing to do,even if it costs you money,you know?

i know NOTHING about cell phones,but i've read that there have been issues here with people using them to sell,buy or communicate here,so that COULD be the issue with the message you got.

as for the dispute,let me check on that,i think you do have to close it manually. i haven't had one in so long,i honestly can't remember,lol!

let me see if he's on the boards today,if not,i'll shoot him an email and get him over here asap!

and i understand your frustration,and your concern. it's lot of money,but it's also sommething that you want to see go to a good home,i get that.

back later!

[the_right_stuff99]

---

@wilcoxgibbman wrote:

By the way, PayPal took 2.9% for some credit card fee which the buyer declined to pay.  $23 in my case and they didn't give me the option of opting out of the fee.  Funny how they can't wait 21 days for that.

---

I wasn't sure where to start with your post, so let's start at the end. The buyer didn't "decline to pay"; the buyer was never asked to pay. That 2.9% is the PayPal fee for the transaction, and it's the SELLER who pays the PayPal fee, not the buyer. It doesn't matter if the buyer funds their payment with a credit card, bank account, or PayPal balance, you still pay the 2.9%. There's no "opting out". That's part of the cost of doing business here. It's one of the things you probably should have checked into before jumping into the deep end of the pool.

Release of funds: the buyer doesn't get to say "release" or "don't release". Once PayPal has proof of delivery, your funds should be available within three days. In this case, the buyer does have some control, because you'll be requiring him to sign for the package. But once that's done, he can't stop the funds from being released.

Paying for postage: if you print your postage label on eBay, they let you pay for it from the buyer's payment. If you print it on PayPal, you pay up front, and they reimburse you from the held funds in a day or two.

Protection against buyer claims: this is the tough one. Yes, buyers can claim the item doesn't work, or was not as described, and force a refund after returning the item. And yes, they can return something besides what you shipped to them. If they pay with a credit card, they can make such claims even after PayPal's 45-day deadline. And that's part of the risk of selling here, reaching a large audience, and probably getting a higher price. In general, I don't recommend eBay for people who want to sell one or two high-priced items, because taking a loss is a possibility, and since you're not a high-volume seller, that one big loss can hit really hard. I would have tried to sell the Amiga elsewhere, in a face-to-face, cash-only transaction. No one can make you follow through with this transaction, but you will still owe eBay their 10%.

[sineaterdoodah]

thank you doc,i appreciate it!!!

[igadgets-and-more]

I am sorry to say, but your case being ripped off by buyers is nothing new. 

I occasionally get extorted by buyers, with the same situations, and there is not much one can do if you want to maybe keep a negative rating out of your feedback.

I feel bad for any seller that ever has to deal with those corrupt buyers, and I have only one piece of advice:  If an item is over 10 pounds - do NOT ship outside of the USA, because chance are, even if it's broken, they won't ship it back.

Most buyers that file such cases are the ones that are truly cheap. They didn't want to pay the listed price, so they extort you with negative feedback to give them their money back...and essentially as a seller, you're screwed either way. Refund them - you're out of your money and item. Have them return it....they won't and slap you a negative feedback  😞

It saddens me that these people are out there, but I am happy it only happens about 0.5% of all transactions, which is ok when weighed against the good.

I occasionally get domestic buyers that say their items were broken (usually about a month after receiving them) and though it is a rare occurence, it's very unpleasant when you know you are being taken advantage of because there aren't regultions in place to truly protect us sellers.

[igadgets-and-more]

Dealing with people like that makes you want to stop selling altogether.  

[igadgets-and-more]

Yes, you should be very concerned.  A brand new buyer going for a high priced ticket item, no responses.  Your gut is correct in telling you, if you ship the item....in all likeliness, I'm sorry to be so negative, but you may end up with no item and no money. They have absolutely nothing to lose, can close their account and keep the money and computer.  If there is a hold on the funds (even if it's from your end) they can easily file a chargeback with their card company (I've had that happen and had to fight it with both paypal and eBay) and claim they didn't receive it, or that they didn't made the purchase.

Contact eBay and ask them exactly what they would advise you to do in the situation - make sure you have the conversatuon on speakerphone and record it.  Do the same thing with paypal. Once you have their answers to your dilemma on tape, then do what they suggest.  If you get taken advantage off from that buyer, you now will have solid & sound prood for both eBay and paypal, that you did what they advise and if they still side with the buyer - those tapes can come in handy for one of those class action lawsuits that occasionally occur against eBay.  (usually from very disgruntled sellers that are fed up with the bs).

Use your buyer requirements, and set them strict.  Don't ship until your funds clear.  & most of all....try to be optimistic.  Dealing with bad buyers certainly sours your day, but ultimately...you have to weigh the pros and cons. If you receive a negative feedback on a low score profile, it's very hard to recover (bring back to 100%).