FRAUDULENT ORDERS (AGAIN)

[plumbingspecials]

So I spent several hours on the phone with both eBay and Paypal about a rash of fraudlent orders from stolen accounts lately. Did you know that Paypal has absolutley no intention of implementing Prevention measures, and eBay has no intention of communicating with Paypal about cancelled transactions? Now I'm getting defects for NOT SHIPPING FRAUDLUENT ORDERS because of the lack of communication, and the Concierge team is usually very helpful in this situation, but this time, nobody seems to know what to do to cancel these bogus transactions, and I was advised to LIE and mark them as shipped. What in the actual ...?

I'm actually looking forward to another payment processing service, with the hopes and expectations that the service will be more secure than Paypal. Neither eBay nor Paypal is doing enough to PREVENT fraud, and prevention is just as important, if not moreso, than protection. I am in total disbelief right now, that I am going to be punished by eBay for cancelled fraudulent transactions by Paypal. 

Trinton@eBay, do you have any suggestions on what to do here, because I am totally stumped in the responses I've received from both eBay and Paypal. 

[plumbingspecials]

Fancy
I KNOW how to ship an order properly. That is not the issue. I know what proof of shipment is, that is not the issue. People are stealing, and Paypal is allowing, almost encouraging it. THAT is the issue.

[piedmontvarietystore]

Hello Plumbingspecials-  I don't blame you for being upset about this because you have a great ebay store and don't have time to mess with fraud.  I read your thread yesterday and then got what looks like a fraudulent order last night.  Because of your posting I have held on shipping until I get more information.  Best regards.

[plumbingspecials]

I've changed my handling time to three days on those items that are vulnerable. It gives rightful owners more time to catch the transaction that they did not place, and I don't have to worry about "late shipments" for holding the orders.

[the_fancy_fox]

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@plumbingspecialswrote:
Fancy
I KNOW how to ship an order properly. That is not the issue. I know what proof of shipment is, that is not the issue. People are stealing, and Paypal is allowing, almost encouraging it. THAT is the issue.

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As long as you ship within paypals guidelnes they won't steal from you. So this all boils down to your upset people lie, cheat and steal? As long as you follow the guidelines you help stop it. 

i still don't get why you are spending hours on the phone with eBay and PayPal. The tools and protections are there to use. 

More to your story I think.

[plumbingspecials]

Yes, they are stealing from me. They are getting an expensive item that they paid for with a stolen account. It doesn't matter that Paypal has me protected. The thieves are getting away with it, and there is no good way to cancel a fraudulent order without taking a hit on the eBay account. You clearly do not understand the situation, which means you are lucky to never have HAD this situation. When you have about 40 of them, it's get pretty old. Most of my time has been spent trying to clean up the mess that these thieves are making. It's not as easy as "just enter your tracking number." You do realize that when Paypal has to cover those costs, those costs are going to eventually be handed down to those who actually PAY for the service, right? Are YOU okay with people stealing from eBay sellers?

[the_fancy_fox]

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@plumbingspecialswrote:
Yes, they are stealing from me. They are getting an expensive item that they paid for with a stolen account. It doesn't matter that Paypal has me protected. The thieves are getting away with it, and there is no good way to cancel a fraudulent order without taking a hit on the eBay account. You clearly do not understand the situation, which means you are lucky to never have HAD this situation. When you have about 40 of them, it's get pretty old. Most of my time has been spent trying to clean up the mess that these thieves are making. It's not as easy as "just enter your tracking number." You do realize that when Paypal has to cover those costs, those costs are going to eventually be handed down to those who actually PAY for the service, right? Are YOU okay with people stealing from eBay sellers?

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Yes I have had it happen. When are you caching it's a fraudulent order? Before they file with PayPal? Then it's easy, problem with buyers address. No defect.

after you ship and they file with PayPal? Put the tracking number in and your covered. No defect.

Or are you discovering this before you ship and they file for unauthorized? Follow the case as PayPal directs you to do. No defect.

is the owner of the account contacting you directly? Tell them to file with PayPal and contact their bank. Do not cancel on your own.

So your mad even though you incur NO losses because PayPal incurs losses which translates to higher fees for everyone? Welcome to the world. Usually If you ship to the address they tell you, they don't incur a loss. 

And then you call them and spend hours on the phone because you said there's no way to cancel this order without getting a defect?  

There is a way to cancel  without getting a defect. I have done it several times. Follow the system. I have had all those senerios and never got a defect for it. If you want to charge out there sword waving high and cancel a transaction on your own, well yea, your going to get dinged.

[plumbingspecials]

I've already stated several times that I do know how to handle these cases, but that is not the problem. The problem is thieves are getting away with this. If you let people get away with stealing, they continue to steal and that eventually drives prices up for everyone, everywhere, and thieves pay absolutely NOTHING, but we do. You seem to think this shouldn't be our problem. Just enter tracking and you're good. Nope. Not that simple when you consider the time it takes to deal with the aftermath. Not that simple when thieves get free stuff that they can turn around and sell. Is that how this is supposed to work? Because if it is, I suppose I am not criminally minded enough to be okay with it. Seriously considering leaving this job to somebody else. Maybe you want it, Fancy? I will accept your application and forward to the business owner here, if you'd like. It doesn't pay great, but you get the shaft an awful lot!

[the_fancy_fox]

PayPal,  credit card companies? They have fraud prevention experts. Do you really think calling in and spending hours on the phone with a customer service rep helps anyone?

You stated your getting dinged because your canceling fraudulent orders yet you say you know what to do.   Now it seems your not so worried about the dings but the people that are committing the fraud.  

I do what they tell me to do to prevent fraud. They have the experts, they have set out guidelines to follow. I do what the experts tell me to do. What you do is your business.

Considering I am a business owner, I get it. If it's stressing you out to much it's time to evaluate if it's worth it to you or not.

Good luck!

[superstars78]

This is terrible. I just had someone buy something and they sent and email asking me to ship it to a different address:(

[plumbingspecials]

Never ship to any address other than what is on your order. Even if it "seems" legit, it will void your protection.

[plumbingspecials]

Fancy -
If I did not spend hours on the phone with eBay and Paypal, there would have been no way for them to know that this is happening. Protection is not enough. Prevention is key, and Paypal allows auto log-in and that right there is complete disregard for prevention.
As I said, I believe this is an inside job because who would be privvy to "no recent activity" accounts with auto Paypal log-in? Isn't that worth SOMEBODY'S time to look into and to bring to their attention? Business owners should be a little more aggressive in preventing theft and fraud, don't you think? Especially since Paypal isn't.
It's principle, Fancy. It really is not okay for people to steal. It is against the law, or were you not aware of that?
ick.

[gloryglorygifts]

I literally just had a similar situation this past week. Buyer's account is open for less than a month and they already have had 47 transactions. Mine was disputed through their credit card company. Makes me wonder how many other sellers have had the same experience with this buyer. I reported the transaction to ebay. They said that the best thing to do is to report disputes like this back to them so that they can see if there is a pattern with a buyer. I'm personally not okay with people stealing but unfortunately our only recourse is to report them and then block them. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. It is really a pain in the butt.

[thatsallfolks]

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@plumbingspecialswrote:

Pretty clear to be fraud and I believe it's an inside job.

Always on accounts without recent activity, always on accounts with auto Paypal log-in. Who might be privvy to this infomration?

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Don't get ahead of yourself. Obviously, it would have to be done with an account with an auto PayPal login. But that simply means that if they hack an account that doesn't use the auto PayPal login, they just don't buy anything with it. It doesn't mean someone knows in advance which accounts have the auto login.

And lack of recent feedback can be used as an indicator that it hasn't been used recently, though it's not 100% reliable.

[ss_essentials]

Agree totally with the advice given, mark them as shipped, then refund, I do it all the time, especially if you suspect they are bogus...

[plumbingspecials]

After 40 of these transactions, the pattern is clear. I'm only guessing it's an inside job, because I don't believe in coincidence as a pattern. I sure hope it isn't, though. But how could someone be THAT lucky to come across so many abandoned accounts with auto login. If I was that lucky I would just play the lottery instead stealing from people. LoL