eBay

chienoir · ‎01-10-2018

I sold a machine and the buyer opened a return request, saying it didn't work. I don't accept returns, but I tried to help him with understanding how to operate the product. He opened a 'not as described' case. He then told me he had a technician examine the machine internally and that he found a defect in it. Since I was not able to confirm or refute that, I granted the return. EBay gave him a full refund. When I received the returned machine I inspected and tested it, and found absolutely nothing wrong with it. I am an experienced technician and am qualified to determine that. The buyer constructed a pack of lies to force a return without any legitimate reason. I reported the buyer and blocked him from future transactions. I lost $65 in shipping costs and eBay will not reimburse me. I appealed the case and sent eBay photos showing the machine in operating mode, proving that it worked properly and was as described. They ignored the proof and denied the appeal. I complained and the eBay rep told me they would review the appeal and respond in five days. They never responded.

Seller beware. Even when you provide proof eBay will ignore it. Abuse of the buyer protection policy is not taken seriously. At eBay the buyer is always right, even when the buyer lies to screw the seller.

fern*wood · ‎01-10-2018

Unfortunately, there are probably very few sellers that haven't experienced this at least once. I feel that allowing returns at least gives buyers the opportunity to return without making stuff up. Most of my returns choose changed mind and pay their own shipping.

chienoir · ‎01-10-2018

If I allowed returns, it would have ended up costing me double the $65 that I lost by the false SNAD claim. The machine only sold for $250. I'm not selling items on eBay to lose money. I realize that there are some dishonest buyers here. What is unjust is eBay's bias against sellers - especially after providing proof to the contrary that the buyer was lying.

couldabeenworse · ‎01-10-2018

I realize that there are some dishonest buyers here. What is unjust is eBay's bias against sellers

There are dishonest people. eBay's "bias" makes them be buyers, which is a lot less damaging to the site than dishonest sellers. It's a shame, but that truly is eBay's best option.

especially after providing proof to the contrary that the buyer was lying

Again unfortunately, it is not hard to come up with "proof" of almost anything. I could send eBay pictures of a working machine, but it doesn't prove that's the one the buyer had, that it worked when he had it, or if I even had that machine in my possession at all.

There at least a small positive that you got a working machine back. Good luck....

couldabeenworse · ‎01-10-2018

If I allowed returns, it would have ended up costing me double the $65 that I lost by the false SNAD claim.

I'm confused as to how you figure that. Normally, in an SNAD claim, the seller pays return shipping and refunds the full original payment.

chienoir · ‎01-10-2018

I realize that there are some dishonest buyers here. What is unjust is eBay's bias against sellers

There are dishonest people. eBay's "bias" makes them be buyers, which is a lot less damaging to the site than dishonest sellers. It's a shame, but that truly is eBay's best option.

Yes, it is eBay's "best option" and in their best interest. When push comes to shove, eBay puts its interests above that of its sellers by kissing up to its buyers at the expense of its sellers. But eBay and its bias does not and cannot make anyone BE a buyer on eBay. No one can make anyone buy anything - not even eBay.

especially after providing proof to the contrary that the buyer was lying

Again unfortunately, it is not hard to come up with "proof" of almost anything. I could send eBay pictures of a working machine, but it doesn't prove that's the one the buyer had, that it worked when he had it, or if I even had that machine in my possession at all.

Essentially you are playing 'devil's advocate' for eBay. Nothing can convince them or you. All the buyer needed to do was to make a false claim based upon lies that were automatically accepted with no proof required. Now please tell me how an honest seller could EVER provide proof of his innocence after having been found guilty by eBay? It really can't ever be done, can it?

There at least a small positive that you got a working machine back. Good luck....

There is little luck in losing money to a liar who knows how to play the system and a site that turns a blind eye to their loophole that allows a buyer to do that. The buyer requies no proof to make an accusation and receive a full refund at the seller's expense; but the seller can never provide any proof that is convincing enough. No proof provided can ever prevail in what is essentially a kangaroo court.

Couldabeenworse, we've both been here for decades and I remember your moniker in this forum. In your name, Couldabeenworse, there is reflected an implicit defense or tacit acceptance of how eBay operates - meaning that the seller should take his lumps and his losses without voicing complaint.

How about Shouldabebetter? Or is that too much to ask?

mwktech · ‎01-10-2018

I shipped a perfectly good scanner to a buyer ( a big one, professional model that weighed 35 pounds) who said it didn't work. So I could pay 50 to have it shipped back or give it to him and get eBay off of my back. This has happened twice and I'm not happy about it, both times eBay took the buyers side. I have 100% feedback and am an honest seller.

In any event I am finding other ways to sell things.

couldabeenworse · ‎01-11-2018

we've both been here for decades

Then hopefully you'll remember that before eBay miraculously discovered Buyer Protection, eBay had all the same complaints about crooks and thieves - but most were coming from buyers. I have no doubt that had eBay continued it's hands-off approach, it would have remained the quaint site to sell broken laser pointers and pez dispensers, if it survived at all.

All the buyer needed to do was to make a false claim based upon lies that were automatically accepted with no proof required.

Yes, that is the way it works. There is no proof available, so it would be a massive waste of time and effort for everybody to pretend there is.

In your name, Couldabeenworse, there is reflected an implicit defense or tacit acceptance of how eBay operates

Not in a billion years. The only thing it reflected was my indifference to selecting a better nickname.

rolenboy01 · ‎01-11-2018

The majority of returns are lies.

chienoir · ‎01-11-2018

All the buyer needed to do was to make a false claim based upon lies that were automatically accepted with no proof required.

@couldabeenworse wrote:
Yes, that is the way it works. There is no proof available, so it would be a massive waste of time and effort for everybody to pretend there is.

It doesn't seem to bother you that eBay is biased and always believes the buyer and penalizes the seller, no matter what either says. Is it any wonder why some buyers will lie? It benefits them, as they know how to exploit the system.

A review of your feedback profile shows that you are ony a buyer and never a seller. Perhaps your being a buyer but not a seller explains your perspective, of being indifferent to the effect and harm from the bias against a seller.

trex101 · ‎01-11-2018

I have a buyer who says he received a damaged electronics item from me and put in an eBay/PayPal claim that it's "Not As Descibed". I disagree with this, since the unit was shipped in good physical condition and was packed correctly, but yet I have to take a loss because USPS damaged it? Not fair....not fair at all. I tried for 2 hours to reach USPS both by phone and email - the latter says it's "down" and to try back later. What a joke. I will not, EVER, ship anything via USPS again.

couldabeenworse · ‎01-11-2018

It doesn't seem to bother you that eBay is biased and always believes the buyer and penalizes the seller.

Of course crooks bother me, but I don't see a better way for eBay to determine whether the buyer or seller is lying. Consumers in the 21st Century are going to be protected. If eBay fails to do it, paypal will, or the credit card issuer. And if they all fail, congress will eventually step in. Merchants need to find a way to remain profitable overall, and undersstand that there will be setbacks.

A review of your feedback profile shows that you are ony a buyer and never a seller. Perhaps your being a buyer but not a seller explains your perspective, of being indifferent to the effect and harm from the bias against a seller.

You've been here 2 decades and never seen a posting ID?

couldabeenworse · ‎01-11-2018

@trex101 wrote:
I have a buyer who says he received a damaged electronics item from me and put in an eBay/PayPal claim that it's "Not As Descibed". I disagree with this, since the unit was shipped in good physical condition and was packed correctly, but yet I have to take a loss because USPS damaged it? Not fair....not fair at all. I tried for 2 hours to reach USPS both by phone and email - the latter says it's "down" and to try back later. What a joke. I will not, EVER, ship anything via USPS again.

Would it be more fair for the buyer should take the loss?

Have you filed the insurance claim?

chienoir · ‎01-11-2018

@couldabeenworse wrote:

Of course crooks bother me, but I don't see a better way for eBay to determine whether the buyer or seller is lying.

The problem is that eBay only makes the pretence, but not any actual attempt to treat sellers fairly. A better way would be for them not to be biased against the seller. For some reason you seem to be comfortable with that bias.

@couldabeenworse wrote:

You've been here 2 decades and never seen a posting ID?

I have no need for such subterfuge. I post under my actual, sole ID.

chienoir · ‎01-11-2018

@trex101 wrote:
I will not, EVER, ship anything via USPS again.

Did you insure the parcel? If not, you have no claim or quarrel with USPS.

If you think USPS is bad, don't ever use UPS. UPS heavily damaged a shipment I made and refused to pay the claim. I sued them and won the entire amount. They still would not pay. I then had to get the sheriff after them to force them to pay and collect what they owed me.