Buyer trying to scam double refund

[zlygophemous]

I'm trying to help a new seller, but don't know what his next step should be. It sounds like the buyer (who is an experienced eBay seller with multiple accounts) is trying to scam him on several levels because he's new to eBay and vulnerable. In fact the buyer has almost come right out and said as much several times.

I don't know every detail, but as I understand it:

-- The buyer won 2 auctions and then afterwards demanded the seller drop her total shipping cost to $5, when she knew he doesn't offer a combined shipping discount. She aggressively guilt tripped him about how she's disabled, and so expects and deserves extra discounts from all eBay sellers!! (And was super rude too, imho.) She acted like the essential oils she'd bid on were something she was buying for herself to support her own health, but that it was a real financial hardship for her to buy them. He gave in and agreed to charge her only $5 for shipping both items together, thinking that would be the end of it.

-- Instead of paying for the 2 oils, she bid on a 3rd bottle of oil, then immediately sent a message to the seller saying she was going out of town for 3 weeks and would pay him for it all when she got back! (Hey lady! Ever hear of a mobile app?!?) She also insisted the shipping cost stay $5, despite the extra item. Again he agreed to her demands for the sake of good customer service, and hoped she'd go away forever, not just for 3 weeks. Lol.

-- When she finally paid weeks later, she didn't ask for, or wait for him to send, a combined invoice with the correct shipping cost. Instead she paid for each item separately, thereby overpaying him for shipping by about $3, and making him pay the .30 PayPal transaction fee 3x. He figured this meant she didn't remember/care about the shipping discount, and let it go. She said nothing about it until... 

-- ...The day the oils arrived, she started out saying they were fine, but complained he'd intentionally overcharged her for shipping and demanded her $3 immediately. She insulted and bullied him, claiming he was dishonest and she was going to leave negative fb for it. He sent her a partial refund of $3 through PayPal right away. She did not mention any other problems, and again he assumed he was done with her.

-- Several hours after he sent the partial refund, she contacted him again, now claiming all 3 oils were SNAD. He'd sent her 3 brand new sealed bottles of essential oil, but she claimed they were not new or sealed, they'd leaked all over, the labels were torn up, and there were scribbles in black marker all over 1 white cap. She even claimed they weren't "new" because they all have the older style labels the manufacturer stopped using in Dec. (Strange that, as she herself has a bunch with the older labels listed for sale, but she calls them all "new"!)

  She ranted about how she couldn't possibly sell them to anyone in that state (Remember her sob story about needing them cheap to use for her own health?) and should be given a 50% refund through PayPal immediately, plus be allowed to keep the oils.

-- Shortly after that message, she increased her demand to an immediate 100% refund processed through PayPal (meaning no eBay protection for him), plus she keeps the oils. She refused to send him pictures as proof of the damage, and told him she was making him this generous offer as a favor to him; It only appeared he was getting ripped-off because he's new and inexperienced!!! (Yes. AND because he IS getting ripped off.) She also said he had until the next day agree, or she'd mail them all back in separate mailers, on top of the negative fb she'd already left him. (No offer to remove the neg.)

-- 2 hours later she sent another message saying she'd just mailed all 3 items back separately, so as to cost him more for the return shipping! She claimed she'd opened a case with eBay and had sent them pictures of the damaged bottles, and therefore he should send her a full refund by PayPal right away, before things got any worse for him than they already were. She even sent him a Payment Request invoice through PayPal, demanding he send her the money, but it didn't have any info in it to tie it to the original transactions at all! (Probably needless to say that she didn't deduct $3 for the partial refund she'd already received either.) Instead of paying her anything, he waited for the return packages to arrive and for eBay to contact him about the case. 

-- So far eBay has not contacted him. Strangely enough there doesn't seem to be any pending cases on file for him at all! It's almost as if she lied about opening a case against him! *gasp* Right. That's probably because she did lie about it. 

-- Yesterday the 3 packages showed up. Fortunately she didn't just send empty padded mailers like I'd warned him she might. 2 of the returned bottles were as pristine as when he sold them to her. No sign of the leaking, stickyness, messed up labels or black marks she'd claimed. The 3rd bottle, however, had clearly been swapped out for an older bottle with a damaged label. No other damage to it though.

-- Today she started threatening him again, and still demands the refund be sent through PayPal, not eBay, and that doing it that way is somehow to help him.

I made sure he understands that's not true, and why it's risky to give refunds through PayPal. How if he'd given her the 50% or 100% refund through PayPal, she could have still opened a case w/eBay and gotten a full refund from them on top of it. (Kinda surprised she hasn't done it yet.)

Ideas about what to do next? Should he report her, and for what offense? (I'm not sure how reporting a buyer works, so don't know how to advise him.) Open an eBay case of some kind? Give up and process a full refund through eBay (and eat the cost of shipping both ways + the $3 he already gave her + PayPal fees + the neg fb), and hope she'll dry up and blow away for good this time? 

On the bright side, she's very open about having multiple eBay accounts, and what the user IDs are, which made it really easy to block them all!

[zlygophemous]

Dang double post again. Sorry.

[chrysylys]

The Friend needs to be posting here. There is no sign up involved, just send them the link and they can post as long as they're signed into their account.

[vintagecraze50]

If it is true that this is an experienced nut job who has already opened TOO MANY BOGUS CASES with Ebay WHY IS SHE STILL HERE? Seems like booty call is needed , meaning boot the nut. Wait, she buys a lot of stuff, no booty call .

[thrift-theory]

I apologize, I have no idea how to handle this situation. I'm reading other users' posts and learning something from this. I just had to say that this is one of the most ridiculous situations I ever read about buyer problems. It's like every time you think the buyer is gone, she's back to harass your friend once again. On top of that, she's making a fuss over essential oils and shipping, had the nerves to say she can't resell them, guilt tripping your friend AND nagging him about how she's doing a favor for your friend.

Had you not advised your friend enough, he would've truly gotten scammed and maybe even receive that double-refund you spoke of. I'd really like to know more about this, and how the situation was handled. Please post back an update. This is something I could learn from. Thank you!

[copper.boom]

Hi @zlygophemous - just wondering what ever happened with this?

[eurodesign4u]

Haaa!!! That is exactly what happened to me a couple years ago. Here are the copies of all emails between me and the buyer, so you will understand what was going on:

Her: Hello, I received the package and you send me totally different scarf, it has a different design. I saw that scarf in the opera house and wanted it but this in not the same : on the photo end of scarf looks dark almost black , the flowers designs looked almost blends with black at the end and they are wrong flowers so it is not the scarf that you were selling, it looks very kitsch, i did not want plain silly roses all over it, on the photo no reoses at all .... I paid you in cash for that , I was so excited to get it but now I am very upset about it... yours Mrs -------.

Me: Hello, I'm very sorry for the mistake I've made with the photo on my listing. Please ship the scarf back for the full refund including shipping cost. Please accept my apologies and thank you for understanding. Sincerely, ----.

Her:   no, I am not happy about it: I want you ot pay for the shipment this is your mistake not mine. I do not understand how the photos can be switched, not acceptable to my opinion. Mrs -------.

Me:   That is what I meant: I will pay for the shipment. I will transfer shipping cost for USPS Priority Mail($5.75) back to your PayPal account right away. We are all humans and sometimes do make mistakes. Thank you.

Her: Thank you I will send the package as soon I get the shipment money , Mrs ------

Me:   Mrs ------, I just sent you money for the USPS Priority Mail via your PayPal account. Please, check: Unique Transaction ID # 7- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -W. Again my apologies for this terrible mistake. Thank you,

Her:   Hello ---- , are you saying that you do not have the scarf oh the photo, you did send another scarf to me , ? How did you get this photo ? I thought that you mistaken the items but you do not have this scarf alltogether ? I received the paypal invoice but the money will be in 3 to 5 days so i need to stay in the line in post office ...but I will not get the scarf ?

Me:   Hello --------, I do not know why the scarf's pictures on the listing and the scarf you actually received are not the same. It NEVER happened to me before and I do not know why it happened now. The only possible explanation I can find at this point that the after original scarf was sold my vendor sent me the scarf with the same color and shape but with the different pattern. But as I already said: it is only my guess. My supplier is very reliable and I have been working with him for long time without any problems at all. Good news is that the item you bought is the item which was listed under eBay Protection Return Policy meaning that if the customer not happy with the product he/she bought he/she has 14 days to return the item for the full refund. Upon your request, yesterday I sent you money for your shipping spending ($5.75 –USPS Priority Mail with trucking number, PayPal Unique Transaction ID # 7- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -W). Also, we can arrange the pickup, so you do not have to go to the post office. You have to understand that the customer satisfaction is our first priority and we will do everything possible make you happy but at first we need to get back the scarf for the further work with our supplier. Sincerely, -----.

Her:   Hello ---- the pick up would be nicer since the lines in the L- - - - -n center post office are long... Unfortunatly I did throw the wrapping away : the porters are swift with their service : I will try my best to put it together as nice as possible, otherwise a scarf woud go to my scarfs draw... Thank you ------

Me:   Hi ------, Let's arrange for a pick up time at your earliest convenience. Waiting for your instruction. Thank you. ----

Her:   Helli ----, our daughter is coming from CA so weekend will be busy. Is a Monday around 2 pm will be good for you? I prepare the pacckage . Thank you ------

Me:   Monday 2:00 PM works for me. Please do not do any packaging just put the scarf in the plastic bag. Please advise on the location. Thank you. Have a great weekend! ----

Her:   We live *** - - - - - - - - Blvd apt *** ------- and ------ ------ it is easiest to come down to **th street to ------- Blvd and make a left turn only one building away. We have a doorman so I will come down with a scarf. Thank you -------

Her again:   Hello -----, it would be good if you bring the cash with you when you pick up the scarf. Thank you I have a knee problem so I am in PT , standing up is bad for me . See you Monday. ------

Me: Hi , I was planning to send a currier to you for pickup and refund the money via PayPal upon receiving the scarf. Please note, I have to pay fees to eBay and PayPal on each transaction and all refunds must be process via PayPal to reverse the fees and not to violate the eBay policy. If you prefer to send it to me, please do so as soon as possible. Regards, ----

Her:   Dear ----, you are experienced Ebay seller with 100% positive feedback so we will do as you advice and Ebay quick paypal refund would be just fine, I only buy not to sell, maybe one day if it will be too many things afterall we live in apartment building storgare space is full So Monday 2 pm I will handle the bag with a scarf to a currier and he can give me a proper receipt that is all . Thank you -------

Me:   Hi, Yes, I’m experienced eBay seller with 100% positive feedback profile. That is why I will encourage you one more time to return this scarf using special eBay Returns tool on your Activity-Summery Page. This tool was designed for the eBay user convenience and allows eBay Resolution Center to monitor every single step of this process including a full refund of all your money you paid for the item. Thank you,

Her:   Hello ----, I do not understand what is that means: are we on tomorrow at 2 Ppm? After I gave you rep a scarf and you request the return approval from me I will do it on Ebay of course . I am with Ebay shopping around 20 years, so I know what to do. I do not want to give you a negative feedback ... I never used another Ebay tool and no idea why is it better for me, I paid money for the badly misrepresented item , why should I do it ? Please explain . So we can do everythign gracefully no war if you choose. ... -------

Hopefully, my experience will help you. Good luck.

[zlygophemous]

Sorry I never got back about how it all ended. I finally had to step away from it because he started doing incredibly stupid things, that weren't what I'd advised, but then expected me to fix it when they blew up in his face like I'd warned they would. 

If I remember right, the last straw for me was when I told him to wait, then leave carefully-worded feedback saying such-and-such, and a follow up to the buyer's neg fb saying something else specific. (I wrote them for him.) If he'd have done what I suggested, the buyer would have looked bad for neg-ing him, instead of the other way around. Instead of waiting, he jumped on immediately and left both. Except instead of writing what I'd suggested, he left other comments in fb that made him sound stupid and petulant, which the buyer used as an easy opportunity to make him look even worse by leaving her own, much better written, fb comments. 

Last I heard she was going to report him to the essential oil manufacturer because the company doesn't allow legitimate distributors to sell on eBay, Amazon, etc. The company claims they will freeze your account permanently if they catch you selling here. (Yet it's not anywhere in the company rules, they've never put themselves on the VERO list, and there are long-time eBay sellers who are openly selling thousand in clearance items they've bought at the walk-in company store every month. Go figure.)

Instead of ignoring her and moving on, he preemptively called the company to try and report HER first, despite not having her member info or even knowing if she's signed up with the company! The company told him there was nothing they could/would do to the buyer without knowing her member #, but confirmed that they will freeze HIS account if he doesn't stop selling their oils on eBay. (Now that he's TOLD them who he is and that he's doing it! Duh!) Despite this, they're both still selling the oils here, and he's still leaving positive fb for every buyer before the transaction is complete. So I'm done helping him with eBay. I've repeatedly led the horse to the proverbial water, and it's STILL determined to drown itself rather than drink. I give up.