They Broke eBay - How Sad

[allthings-collectible]

Although I realize that titles like this will inevitably draw out those who feel that it's their duty to not only defend eBay, but even blame sellers for doing something wrong, then so be it. We know who you are due to your condescending consistency. 

Yet, this year is shaping up to be the beginning of the end for eBay. What caused them to try to change so many aspects of eBay's front-end and back-end systems? Greed perhaps. Or maybe desperation, in an attempt to stop the bleeding of lost year-over-year market share. Their motivation to add PL coupled with a revised definition of impressions shows that they no longer care about sustainable sellers, let alone the overall effect on fair market values of resold goods.

This current system has only one outcome, which is to drive sales by price competition. This includes parading identical items with lower prices in front of buyers AFTER they made their purchase. It's no wonder why cancelations are up and sales are down. All of this ocurring during a time when eBay is losing over a million sellers each year since 2018, all the while it's competitors are gaining sellers and market share. The writing is on the wall.

[allthings-collectible]

Well, I hope you're not defining the antiques market just by furniture. The brown furniture market changed along time ago. When speaking about antiques in the context of eBay, most sellers are referring to items that can be easily shipped without giving up their margins. Showing us your sales data unsolicited without context will always be suspect, especially to discreet sellers. 😉

[greatmidwestcoin]

As mentioned in the post, the report is from my main selling ID and not the one I use to post here. I have been 99% coins for all of my 23 years here. I seriously don't understand why more do not get into selling coins. It is so easy. Easy to ship also. I have gotten my son and old co-worker up and running selling coins. The major problem that people have is they get greedy and don't understand it is a process. I started out looking through bank bags of pennies. On eBay, you need to find a niche in the coin market and not just sell common stuff that most other sellers sell. Pick like error coins, CC dollars, and my favorite that I tell newbies is foreign coins. The foreign coin market is exploding with so many people coming to the US from every country on Earth. Just go to a large coin show and look at the number of foreign coin dealers to the number of people around them. 2 maybe 3 foreign dealers per 200 US coin dealers. That's your sign. Unfortunately, foreign coins have ten of thousands of varieties. The world coin book on foreign coins is 1-2 feet thick. But don't let that scare you. Pick a couple of countries and specialize in them. Mexico and China are two good ones for obvious reasons. For me? It is too late for me to learn new tricks as what I have going is more than enough for me to handle. Man, I wish someone would listen to me.

[greatmidwestcoin]

It's a shame that some people choose not to see the writing on the wall. Antiques in all forms are dead. The only ones that will tell you differently are the ones with storage buildings full of them. Do you not watch Pickers? They prove that they are dying every show. I respect your opinion, but from my 50 years of heavy presence in the antique collectibles field, I will stand by mine. And FYI, I had nothing to prove by plastering up my sales data other than to show the OP is not 100% correct. Without context? Discreet sellers? I have no idea what you are talking about. My sales data is a fact. And just why would I share what I sell and how by giving up my main selling ID? I would not sell my 50 years of experience for a post here, that's for sure. I AM doing something right and one thing is to not complain and whine here "wishing" things would get better. Your goals or riches will never come to you. You have to go after them. And that's true with anything in life, especially today.

[chapeau-noir]

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@yuzuha wrote:

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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Just because younger generations don't like collectibles doesn't make them inferior people. I'm really sick and tired of this gross and untrue generalization. Sorry if they don't like knickknacks, neither do I.

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And that's just it-- they DO collect, just not the same things that the older generation collects. I sell collectibles aimed at younger people. I go to conventions and see people there spending hundreds of dollars on collectibles. What they DON'T collect is stuff like Precious Moments or Hummel figurines, Thomas Kincade plates, etc.

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Right. I was using 'collectibles' in the traditional sense (i.e., Hummel figurines, etc.) - I do know people continue to collect, but habits change, interests change, and the fact that they do says nothing about the individuals doing the collecting.

When collectibles were really hot here, it was before a lot of the garages and basements of dwellings all over the US started disgorging their contents onto eBay. The market has been super-saturated. It still sells, but I think people pretty selective of what they want to buy because there is so much to choose from.

[mam98031]

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@windycityart4u wrote:

For sure. Everything you are saying is true and it is very wise to follow trends but eBay is the elephant in the room. They are bleeding out customers who are moving to other platforms. They keep raising fees and trying to have a complete pay for play market with promoted listings. You can tell things are bad when they keep suggesting the promoted listings going higher and higher. The company itself needs to take some responsibility. This is the first year I had to branch out locally and things are fine in other places. They just decided one day to copy Amazon and throw their original sellers in the trash. 

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@windycityart4u 

IDK if the buyers that have left Ebay are moving to other platforms, that is anything I have read about.  

The fees here are not as high as some other platforms and higher than others.  It is a mixed bag.  You can certainly find other platforms that you may pay less fees, but that doesn't mean you are going to have any sales, it only means you pay less fees.

Ebay hasn't raised the FVF since 2020.  There are other fees for certain tools, but sellers don't have to use them, that would be the choice of the seller.  Promoted Listings are a choice.  They may work well in some categories and not so much in others.  The more saturated the category you are selling in the more important they may become.  It is important to remember it is the Seller that chooses what additional FVF they are willing to pay for a sale.  That is NOT Ebay increasing fees.

Ebay is a far cry from Amazon.  Amazon is a completely different type of site with very little in common with Ebay.  And Amazon fees are higher than Ebay.  I know, I sell there too.

[mam98031]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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Not sure why any seller would practice this.  Cross posting is so dangerous, not to mention against the selling rules on Ebay.

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Why? I'll tell you why.....for the same reason Coke sells to almost all grocery stores, the reason most larger merchants sell on multiple channels (yes the same items at the same time).

Omni-channel sellers are everywhere, they employ what is now fairly cheap software to monitor and allocate their inventory to avoid out of stock situations. This is not even restricted to large merchants, it's very common for merchants of a modest size to list (same) goods on eBay. etsy, Amazon, their own website and others.

eBay does not have any rule that prohibits multi-channel selling, Amazon does (or used to) have a policy that if you cross list to another site the price must be equal or more than your Amazon price, eBay doesn't have even that policy.

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@slippinjimmy 

We are talking about two completely different things.  You do NOT have to cross post items to sell on multiple channels.  Your example has nothing to do with cross posting.  Cross Posting is having a single item in your inventory, but posting it for sale on multiple channels.  That is a dangerous practice because if it sells on multiple channels, the seller can fulfill those orders because they only had a single item.  Therefore they will have to cancel some sales.

I sell on multiple channels and have for years.  I never said Ebay prohibits multi channel selling.

[mam98031]

Don't confuse Cross Posting with double posting on the Ebay site.  The two are not the same.

[mam98031]

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@onthescrews wrote:

Where is it stated cross listing is against eBay policy? 

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@onthescrews 

I have looked all over the place and I simply don't find it anymore.  It is likely when they updated the Cancellation process a few years back that they didn't see the need for the policy anymore since if a seller cancels a sale for out of stock they get a defect.  

If I get any further information I will certainly post it.

[slippinjimmy]

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@greatmidwestcoin wrote:

As mentioned in the post, the report is from my main selling ID and not the one I use to post here. I have been 99% coins for all of my 23 years here. I seriously don't understand why more do not get into selling coins. It is so easy. Easy to ship also. I have gotten my son and old co-worker up and running selling coins. The major problem that people have is they get greedy and don't understand it is a process. I started out looking through bank bags of pennies. On eBay, you need to find a niche in the coin market and not just sell common stuff that most other sellers sell. Pick like error coins, CC dollars, and my favorite that I tell newbies is foreign coins. The foreign coin market is exploding with so many people coming to the US from every country on Earth. Just go to a large coin show and look at the number of foreign coin dealers to the number of people around them. 2 maybe 3 foreign dealers per 200 US coin dealers. That's your sign. Unfortunately, foreign coins have ten of thousands of varieties. The world coin book on foreign coins is 1-2 feet thick. But don't let that scare you. Pick a couple of countries and specialize in them. Mexico and China are two good ones for obvious reasons. For me? It is too late for me to learn new tricks as what I have going is more than enough for me to handle. Man, I wish someone would listen to me.

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Coins and Stamps are two collectibles that have a big advantage over many others.

- Coins and Stamps are something that people have collected seriously for over a century

- Coins and Stamps are something that many collectors have purchased remotely (mail order) for a very long time

- Coins and Stamps are something that for most use very little space

- Coins and Stamps are something where there is a constant supply of new releases that appeal to collectors

- Coins and Stamps are something which collectors both casual and serious will never run out of interesting items to buy.

I sell music for the most part, it also has many of the same properties as coins and stamps, in the early days of eBay Coins, Stamps and Records were three of the key Categories as they had been for many decades prior to the Internet.

Another big issue for the collectables Categories is that many people even if they are attracted do not have space for this stuff. I live in a major city, it's filled with small apartments and tiny condo's, if you have the collecting bent you have to stick with really small stuff.

None of what I said means that nobody can be successful with these goods but they need to have the right stuff at the right prices.

Then there is the elephant in the room....too many dealers chasing too few dollars.

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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@cardxcraft wrote:

This is why I mentioned when the programs/software running cross posting get better, it may be more advantageous.  Its not dangerous if the software removes the listing from said platform once its sold. 

I really didn't know cross-listing was not allowed.  I also wonder how Ebay would police this.  I'll have to research ToS to see it myself.    

Thanks for mentioning this.

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They can't, and I'm not sure where this myth started. I think it was a mistaken deduction from the fact that eBay does not allow a single listing to be posted twice.

ETA: They *do* have rules against negotiating a sale off-site and penalties for ending listings early for some situations - this is tracked through messages.

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Keep in mind, even Ebay's OWN double listing policy had a built-in loophole, that they knew about & allowed to continue for many years.  I think it's still there but I haven't used it in close to a decade, so I'm not positive.  I took advantage of that loophole, as did many others for years.  Wish I could remember exactly how it worked, but it's been a long time.  I'm pretty sure you remember it Chap, cuz all the clothing sellers on the various 'other' boards were doing it, back then.  

[janet9988]

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@allthings-collectible wrote:

Although I realize that titles like this will inevitably draw out those who feel that it's their duty to not only defend eBay, but even blame sellers for doing something wrong, then so be it. We know who you are due to your condescending consistency. 

Yet, this year is shaping up to be the beginning of the end for eBay. What caused them to try to change so many aspects of eBay's front-end and back-end systems? Greed perhaps. Or maybe desperation, in an attempt to stop the bleeding of lost year-over-year market share. Their motivation to add PL coupled with a revised definition of impressions shows that they no longer care about sustainable sellers, let alone the overall effect on fair market values of resold goods.

This current system has only one outcome, which is to drive sales by price competition. This includes parading identical items with lower prices in front of buyers AFTER they made their purchase. It's no wonder why cancelations are up and sales are down. All of this ocurring during a time when eBay is losing over a million sellers each year since 2018, all the while it's competitors are gaining sellers and market share. The writing is on the wall.

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Well if the buyers are canceling and then buying cheaper items I guess it would equal out.

[yuzuha]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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When collectibles were really hot here, it was before a lot of the garages and basements of dwellings all over the US started disgorging their contents onto eBay. The market has been super-saturated. It still sells, but I think people pretty selective of what they want to buy because there is so much to choose from.

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Oh yeah, the thrift stores here are overflowing with that stuff too and it really doesn't move at all. I've seen literally the same Kincade plates on the shelf in my local thrift sitting there for three months straight...

[joliztoyco]

Gee...what a nice list, Lucky.
Here's one with these things called "facts".
2013 Annual Revenue: 16 Billion
2022 Annual Revenue: 9.7 Billion.
That's a whopping 40% loss of revenue!!
Here. Got some more:
2020 Gross Merchandise Volume: 100 Billion
2022 Gross Merchandise Volume:  73.9 Billion
That's a 26% loss in TWO YEARS!!!
Active users? Oh yeah...we got those too:
2018 Active Users: 175 Million
2022 Active Users: 138 Million
Yeah...that's only a "paltry" loss of 22% of their active users. In 3 YEARS!!
Let's put this in simple terms for people to understand.
In 3 short years,  1 out of every 5 ebay users quit the platform. Gone. Poof.
But here's my favorite: Sellers.
2014 Ebay sellers: 25 Million
2022 Ebay sellers: 18.3
So Ebay has LOST 27% of it's sellers. Wait! What! I thought people were just "lined up" for the privilege of selling on Ebay.
I guess that's not really true, is it??
I didn't see Promoted Listings" mentioned in your list. Interesting.
Because that is changing the whole "seller experience" on Ebay in ways nothing on your "list" ever has. And for many sellers? It's the last straw. 
Sit tight. We can all laugh at the end of 2023 when Ebay releases their yearly report. 

[chapeau-noir]

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@simply-the-best-for-you wrote:

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

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@cardxcraft wrote:

This is why I mentioned when the programs/software running cross posting get better, it may be more advantageous.  Its not dangerous if the software removes the listing from said platform once its sold. 

I really didn't know cross-listing was not allowed.  I also wonder how Ebay would police this.  I'll have to research ToS to see it myself.    

Thanks for mentioning this.

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They can't, and I'm not sure where this myth started. I think it was a mistaken deduction from the fact that eBay does not allow a single listing to be posted twice.

ETA: They *do* have rules against negotiating a sale off-site and penalties for ending listings early for some situations - this is tracked through messages.

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Keep in mind, even Ebay's OWN double listing policy had a built-in loophole, that they knew about & allowed to continue for many years.  I think it's still there but I haven't used it in close to a decade, so I'm not positive.  I took advantage of that loophole, as did many others for years.  Wish I could remember exactly how it worked, but it's been a long time.  I'm pretty sure you remember it Chap, cuz all the clothing sellers on the various 'other' boards were doing it, back then.  

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Is that the 'double down'? I *think* some sellers were listing something on fixed price and the same thing on auction. I have a high risk threshold and have cross-listed for years, but I didn't have the nerve to do that so never did. I guess I only have a high risk threshold for some things lol. But yeah, one can't list the same thing with the same format - though even if you change one word in the title, it'll go through.

[slippinjimmy]

2013 Annual Revenue: 16 Billion
2022 Annual Revenue: 9.7 Billion

That 2013 revenue number includes PayPal