Sold an item, and the buyer sent a cheap item through Amazon back, then used the tracking number

[zuked]

So the gist is I sold a gopro on Ebay for $270.  Buyer got it but said there was something wrong with it.  It was fine when I used it last, but after a bit of back and forth, I agree to take a return.  I buy the Ebay return label, and don't hear a thing for a week.  In addition to the label never being used.

During that week, I receive a package of a cheap calculator from Amazon that I didn't order.  I call them up, and they say someone gifted it to me, but won't tell me who.

A few days later, I get a claims or whatever from Ebay saying the buyer sent the item, that I received it, and that they are refunding the buyer.  

I never received the item, so I email Ebay customer service (since the whatever complaint ticket is already closed and I can't respond to it.)  Ebay customer service says they have a tracking that the item was delivered and gives me the tracking number.  And of course the tracking number provided is the Amazon "gift" tracking number.  

So I have emailed customer service and tell them what happened, and they say to send in a declaration that I did not receive it, which I do through the automated system.  here I think everything is going well.

Now fast forward a few days, and Ebay says they didn't receive the declaration and again favor the buyer.  I also notice that this is under a different SR number than the one I originally sent.

I again send all the information, and they keep going back to the tracking number shows it was delivered.  Now I'm on at least 4 SR numbers, which I listed to them, I've talked to a few different people via email, and none of them seems to want to look at anything but the tracking number and say it was delivered.  

Am I screwed?  Is this how eBay works and rewards scammers?

[ittybitnot]

 If the return label you provided was never used, then there's no way eBay would refund the buyer. That's not how this works

Buyers are NOT required to use the label provided by the seller/ebay.  They can "obtain" their own, and upload the tracking number.  That is why this scam works. 

[autopiacarcare]

---

@zuked wrote:

Also, specifically about Amazon's delivery service.  

I wrote it earlier in this thread.  But there is a way to bypass amazon's delivery service.  They way to do it is to check on an item.  See if there are multiple sellers of the item.  Once you see there is multiple sellers of the item, you go below the add to cart and buy it now buttons.  There is a section that says New and Used (##) from $$ prime free shipping.  If you click on that link, you can see if you buy something from Amazon and delivered through amazon, or select someone that ships it themselves.  

---

This is exactly right.

It's called Seller Fulfilled Prime.  Sellers can get the Prime shipping badge in a couple of different ways.  They can have their inventory stored in Amazon warehouses and fulfilled by Amazon (FBA) or they can do Seller Fulfilled Prime, which is where they still ship the item themselves but they offer free 2 day shipping to be Prime eligible.

All the scammer has to do is find a Prime eligible item that is "fulfilled by seller" instead of "fulfilled by Amazon" and they can pretty much guarantee they will get a tracking number from one of the regular shipping carriers rather than an Amazon delivery number.

Or to simplify things even further, it doesn't even really have to be a Prime shipment specifically or even something ordered from Amazon - it could be any item where the seller is shipping it directly and offers free shipping or the item cost+shipping is much lower than the amount they will get refunded on the eBay return, thus making it still worth running the scam.

If you bought a $500 item, it could be worth it to buy a $5.00 item with $5.00 shipping if it meant you could get your $500 back and keep the item too - if you were a dishonest person with intent to defraud and scam people that is.

[zuked]

Well Brian.  This is getting pretty sad now.  

I get an email from Ebay saying that they could not read the PDF file that I sent them with my declaration.  The email was on Oct 17 at 11:48 pm.  This declaration was sent Oct 6 and again on Oct 11 when they said they did not receive it.   So I again resend it.

I then receive an email shortly after saying nothing can be done since a final request was done on Oct 11.  

So it seems Ebay doesn't care if fraud is committed, or that if I send documentation, they either won't look at it, or if they tried to look at it and can't open it, just makes a decision anyways without informing the seller.  

[autopiacarcare]

---

@zuked wrote:

Well Brian.  This is getting pretty sad now.  

I get an email from Ebay saying that they could not read the PDF file that I sent them with my declaration.  The email was on Oct 17 at 11:48 pm.  This declaration was sent Oct 6 and again on Oct 11 when they said they did not receive it.   So I again resend it.

I then receive an email shortly after saying nothing can be done since a final request was done on Oct 11.  

So it seems Ebay doesn't care if fraud is committed, or that if I send documentation, they either won't look at it, or if they tried to look at it and can't open it, just makes a decision anyways without informing the seller.  

---

brian@ebay tyler@ebay  - can you help this seller please?

@zuked  - I'd also recommend reaching out to Ask eBay on Twitter.  I know it may be a bit of a hassle if you aren't already active on Twitter but it is usually the fastest way for smaller sellers without concierge support to get in touch with a US based eBay rep that can assist with account specific issues like this.

https://twitter.com/askebay

[ittybitnot]

..... then receive an email shortly after saying nothing can be done since a final request was done on Oct 11......  

This is horrible news.  I suppose we can assume now that a seller that is a victim of the "cheap trinket from Az scam" is SOL,  and this will be included in the "part of doing business on the net" (throw the seller under the bus) faulty return program.  At least we now know. 

I truly understand that this has been a miserable experience for you, but it is most appreciated that you decided to share an update so we know what to expect in the future. 

@zuked 

[autopiacarcare]

 @zuked  - even if the case has been closed with a "final decision", eBay can and does have the power to make this right for you - don't let them tell you otherwise.

I had to fight for it, but eventually eBay did the right thing and refunded us for the returns that were improperly refunded when we were hit with a variation of this scam.  Those refunds were "courtesy refunds" that came from eBay, not from the "buyer".  I've read many reports of sellers in similar situations also being able to get a "courtesy refund" from eBay.  You have enough documentation for eBay to make the right decision here, keep pushing them on that.

[indiansummernights]

It is so messed up that Ebay is allowing that buyer to commit fraud. I'm seriously starting to think that the only reason why they protect buyers from scammer sellers is because buyers can easily get their money back from their credit card company. They don't have to rely on Ebay and Paypal to protect them from scammers unlike sellers whose only other alternative when Ebay\PayPal won't help is to sue. Otherwise it makes no sense why they make it so easy for scammers who are posing as buyers (which is why I will never sell any high priced items on Ebay) but have made it extremely difficult for the scammers posing as sellers.

If you haven't already, you should report the buyer to Amazon for using their services to commit fraud since the scammer will no doubt pull this stunt on other sellers (and hopefully Amazon will get enough complaints that will result in the buyer getting kicked off Amazon).

[zuked]

Yes, I did talk to customer service on Amazon.  I explained to them the entire situation.  And while they couldn't do anything, they made it a point to make a note on that persons account in case they get more complaints.  

[brian@ebay]

---

@zuked wrote:

Well Brian.  This is getting pretty sad now.  

I get an email from Ebay saying that they could not read the PDF file that I sent them with my declaration.  The email was on Oct 17 at 11:48 pm.  This declaration was sent Oct 6 and again on Oct 11 when they said they did not receive it.   So I again resend it.

I then receive an email shortly after saying nothing can be done since a final request was done on Oct 11.  

So it seems Ebay doesn't care if fraud is committed, or that if I send documentation, they either won't look at it, or if they tried to look at it and can't open it, just makes a decision anyways without informing the seller.  

---

@zuked as I mentioned in my email to you, the solution I am seeking can take up to a week to process and I wont know more until that time. I will definitely email you when I have more information. Customer support isn't looped in on the steps I'm taking so it makes sense that they are providing you the information you received.

Please be patient for the next several days until I send you another email. Thanks!

[zuked]

Cool.  Thank you Brian for all your work in this.  

[sextons-sweet-deals]

Good posts for everyone to be aware this holiday season!

You stated they did not use the return label you paid for. Wouldn't that support your case? The tracking number is still out there and has not been used? 

I would also think about the possible weight difference and any photos you can supply of what you sent and what you received back.

[autopiacarcare]

---

@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:

Good posts for everyone to be aware this holiday season!

You stated they did not use the return label you paid for. Wouldn't that support your case? The tracking number is still out there and has not been used? 

I would also think about the possible weight difference and any photos you can supply of what you sent and what you received back.

---

@sextons-sweet-deals  - since eBay does allow the buyer to use their own label/upload their own tracking for various legitimate reasons (buyer couldn't print the eBay/seller provided label etc.), just the fact that they used their own tracking number alone wouldn't be considered proof of anything and would be completely within eBay policy/procedure.

However, you are absolutely correct that the weight difference and picture of the label and contents of the package associated with the tracking the buyer provided should be more than enough for eBay to figure out what really happened here and do the right thing for this seller.

In my opinion, in addition to reimbursing the seller and making sure there is absolutely zero negative impact to their account in any way from this, part of doing the right thing would also be to permanently ban the "buyer" - and I don't mean just the one ID, but to make sure they can't come back with another ID or guest account either.  This type of scam should be a hard "one and done" rule, period.

Not that I'm holding my breath for that given the experience I had with a malicious buyer repeatedly hitting us with this type of fraud, but we can certainly hope that eBay would take this seriously enough to proactively protect other sellers and the OP from this "buyer".

[zuked]

Brian.  Thanks for all the help you put in to this issue I had.  I just received the payment today.  It definitely would not have been possible without your intervention.  

[ittybitnot]

It definitely would not have been possible without your intervention.  

@zuked 

So glad to hear your issue has been favorably resolved. Members have certainly learned a lot about how the process works when a seller is a victim of this scam return scenario. 

brian@ebay 

Thank you so much for helping this OP! Would it be possible for you to give some direction for other sellers that find themselves involved in this situation?  Customer service is apparently trained to ONLY consider the delivery confirmation, and is either unable or unwilling to proceed beyond that information for the most part. To have to tell a poster here that 'they have to keep calling back until they get someone who will/can intervene' is not a pleasant solution. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-Return-Case-Scam-with-Random-Amazon-Package/td-p/3126250...

[mapleka_0]

---

@ittybitnot wrote:

Yes, it seems some of the problems with these fraudulent returns would be solved if it required the buyer to use the label provided, but that would be throwing those buyers under the bus who claim they don't have a printer.   On ebay, fraudulent returns are a historically the seller's problem. 

---

That however is no longer true, the buyer doesn't need to have a printer, they can now 'scan' a barcode and take it to the Post Office and have them print the label (yes it is very surprising and amazing this, but it is true) they just came out with this in their last update.