OK, eBay's IDIOT programming just cost me $39 in sales...

[sin-n-dex]

Customer contacts me, wants three coins. They're on her watch list, I send her offers. She wanted to buy them as a gift for someone.

She messages me that when she gets my offers it makes her "check out" instead of adding to the cart, and it's charging her the full shipping amount on each of the three coins instead of letting her get combined shipping.

I tried and tried to explain what's going on (how eBay is forcing this, has nothing to do with my store), and that no one knows why it picks some customers and not others to make the checkout button appear instead of adding to cart.

Well she likely doesn't trust I'll refund since from what I hear from my customers, many sellers do not refund anything even when they overcharge things like shipping... so now she's not buying the coins, and I just lost a $39 all because EBAY doesn't understand about people wanting to buy multiple items and combine shipping.

Who are they to decide if I want the customer to check out now or not? I don't have that enabled in my store, there's no immediate payment required, so if the customer wants to put it in their cart and request an invoice, I say to eBay "let them do just that".

C.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

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If that buyer cannot trust a written statement saying flat-out 'I am not able to combine the charges with an invoice but I will immediately refund the excess shipping after your payment' or something like

There are buyers who hold Ebay sellers in extremely low regard. Generally based on their poor experiences with some Ebay sellers. There is plenty of bad history, and it is sometimes difficult to make it clear to some buyers that you are one of the good guys,

This has always been a drag on Ebay business.

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[sin-n-dex]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

 I send her offers.

@sin-n-dex 

Just so you know, in one of eBay's recent updates, they decided to ROLL OUT the latest 'enhancement' that makes all seller generated offers IPR.  This was after all that other drama where they turned accepted offers into 'you sent an offer' that caused so much confusion for both buyers and sellers.  I don't even think the different screens that were sent at random as we had discussed previously will be used.  It will be pay or don't get it, or better pay INDIVIDUALLY or don't get it would be more accurate.   Though the buyer can choose their payment source, there will be no opportunity to combine items for one invoice. 

The inability to combine makes more money for eBay with individual transaction fees (30 0r 40 cents each instead of one fee for a combined order), and increases their number of items sold count for their GMV stats.  

Based on your feedback, we’re extending these improvements to seller-initiated offers. When potential buyers are interested in your offer, they’ll be taken directly to checkout and, in order to accept the offer and secure the item, they’ll need to successfully complete payment.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/2024-Winter-Seller-Update/Reduce-unpaid-items-when-sending-offers-to-b...

Not sure if it is YOUR (un)lucky day or the buyer's  for this "improvement" to hit at this time. 

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I had someone buy 23 $2 stamp lots this morning and request an invoice for combined shipping... I'd hate to think they can't do that if I send offers on the items. A lot of my business is built on selling quantity of a bunch of little things in a single order. I realize eBay likes getting their 30 cents, but it's not a $20 item I'm selling, these are little things and those 30 cent fees make it not viable to keep selling those things here.

C.

[sin-n-dex]

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

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If that buyer cannot trust a written statement saying flat-out 'I am not able to combine the charges with an invoice but I will immediately refund the excess shipping after your payment' or something like

There are buyers who hold Ebay sellers in extremely low regard. Generally based on their poor experiences with some Ebay sellers. There is plenty of bad history, and it is sometimes difficult to make it clear to some buyers that you are one of the good guys,

This has always been a drag on Ebay business.

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That low opinion explains some of the messages I get that are kind of out of the blue... being accused of doing something right off the bat instead of a simple question to follow up on whatever the issue is. I generally don't even know about the issue until I get a message like that, and it puts me on the defensive (which isn't really a good thing when replying to customers).

C.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

But you do have a point, if a seller promises something in writing, it should be believed. 

Why didn't you simply create a new listing that included all three coins the buyer wanted, at the exact price you had agreed to, with the exact shipping you had agreed on?

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Because I didn't think of that at the time. I should have thought of it, but I didn't. It was pointed out here afterwards.

C.

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Beautiful thing about making a single custom listing ... it can save you some money.  If your buyer bought each item separately and you refunded after, you'd have paid separate transaction fees on each transaction (I know you're in Canada so Idk what that is in CAD ... it's 30/40c here depending on of it's above or below $20 I think?) So would've been a difference of 50c-80c USD savings. ..... every penny counts when you're selling coins 😉

Oh ... it could also save on those pesky AdD on FEES if you typically partake and then don't for the custom listing... that could save a PRETTY penny 🫣

[sin-n-dex]

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@ajs_coins_and_alchemy wrote:

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

But you do have a point, if a seller promises something in writing, it should be believed. 

Why didn't you simply create a new listing that included all three coins the buyer wanted, at the exact price you had agreed to, with the exact shipping you had agreed on?

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Because I didn't think of that at the time. I should have thought of it, but I didn't. It was pointed out here afterwards.

C.

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Beautiful thing about making a single custom listing ... it can save you some money.  If your buyer bought each item separately and you refunded after, you'd have paid separate transaction fees on each transaction (I know you're in Canada so Idk what that is in CAD ... it's 30/40c here depending on of it's above or below $20 I think?) So would've been a difference of 50c-80c USD savings. ..... every penny counts when you're selling coins 😉

Oh ... it could also save on those pesky AdD on FEES if you typically partake and then don't for the custom listing... that could save a PRETTY penny 🫣

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I've done the custom listing thing for larger numbers of items, but I guess this was three items so I didn't think about it.

As for the ad fees, I've stopped paying to play. Some items still have promoted ad fee because I didn't remove it, I just stopped promoting things I was listing. Hasn't hurt my sales a lot to not promote, and I keep more of the money. Sometimes it was a $4-5 promo fee on an item, and margins might have already been a bit tight.

C.

[doc-holmes]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@doc-holmes wrote:

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I get it. Even if it is in writing, if the seller doesn't follow through, will eBay do anything? Probably not. I'd probably take a chance of its a few bucks and the seller seems trustworthy, but I get why some may not. 

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I think eBay can't do anything about that anymore then they can do something about the buyer who promises to be liable if tracking is not used. The buyer can say it will be their risk, but when the INR is filed, eBay goes by their rules to issue a refund.

I think having over 10K in feedback helps with the trustworthy part. And keeping a few bucks by not combining shipping will likely result in negative feedback, so it's not worth the risk. I have several checks along the way to make sure I get all shipping refunds done. I may catch it when they pay, or when I ship, if it gets completely missed, I will catch it when I reconcile at the end of the week. That's when I review and log all the figures.

C.

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Bingo. It works both ways. For the record, I'd have no trouble trusting your account to make good on the promise, but Joe Schmo with 6 feedback? Nope. 

[pereirahawk]

Refund minus transaction fee $0.30, and a cost per item add on.  In fact, just build the business policy.

Kindly let the buyer know their refund for combined shipping consists of x amount of dollars minus $0.30 (Ebay Cost Per Order transaction fee) and seller cost per added item.

[fern*wood]

I never understand why some of my buyers can request an invoice and others tell me they have to pay for each item.  I don't have IPR on my listings (husband does, but only my items are involved) so why can some do it and others can't?  I hate to end items and make new listings for people because often they disappear after doing the work.

[a_c_green]

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@fern*wood wrote:

I never understand why some of my buyers can request an invoice and others tell me they have to pay for each item.  I don't have IPR on my listings (husband does, but only my items are involved) so why can some do it and others can't?

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Just as a data point, over in my buying account I'm currently waiting to hear back from a seller about combining the Shipping on a couple of auctions that I won. The payment page lists both auctions to be paid, but simply totals up the separate Shipping charges for each, even though they're so small and lightweight that they could travel together in the same box (or padded envelope) without even going into the next price point. There was a button there for requesting a combined shipping invoice, and it worked (I copied myself on the message just to be sure), although the seller has yet to reply, or send the requested invoice, or anything... 🙄

If this runs into the fourth day with no action from the seller, I'll have to pay for both, and you just know he's going to combine them anyway. I'm thinking he may be a bit miffed about how low the auctions ended (he started both at 99¢ and one didn't move from that spot), but hey, that's not my fault.

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@fern*wood wrote:

I hate to end items and make new listings for people because often they disappear after doing the work.

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In cases like that where I'm setting up a special listing for someone, I gently nudge them into action by saying that I will schedule the requested listing to start at some point very soon (such as the top of the next hour, if we're currently exchanging messages), and send them the link to the scheduled listing in advance so that they can be ready to jump on it, but I'll also mention that the listing is First Come, First Served (a/k/a "You Snooze, You Lose," but I try to be a little more diplomatic than that... 😉).

[robbie31415]

The realm of programming itself is not susceptible to exhibiting idiocy, with the potential exception of artificial intelligence, which could be construed as a form of programmable intelligence.

[ittybitnot]

so why can some do it and others can't?

@fern*wood 

Buyers that use a mobile device do not have the option to request a total.  eBay's has been working on that for a few years now, and if you believe that.....

There was a discussion about this yesterday that provides other reasons it doesn't work.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyers-are-starting-to-get-the-message-and-getting-aggravated/...

[campanaelia]

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

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@wastingtime101 wrote:

That said, since so many buyers are distrusting of "refund after the fact" due to the number of sellers that don't follow through, why not offer a choice of a post-sale refund as easiest option, or a custom listing at the agreed upon price if they're not comfortable with the promise of a post-sale refund?

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If that buyer cannot trust a written statement saying flat-out 'I am not able to combine the charges with an invoice but I will immediately refund the excess shipping after your payment' or something like that then I would say that is more a problem with the buyer than the system. I have actually had that same issue in some multiple purchases of my own but the seller has simply said 'go ahead and pay it as-is and I will fix it later' and they always do.

I mean - I know the selling and combining procedures have big flaws - but good grief... if the buyer is not going to believe a promise provided IN WRITING then that is just sad.

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I've learned over the years sellers can not always be trusted. I've been promised combined shipping adjustments many times before committing to buy and then have sellers totally disregard those agreements. It only takes a few bad apples to cause buyers to be more cautious. Yeah ebay will remove UPI strikes if they see combined shipping was implied before paying, but once they have your money there is no guarantee for the refund.

[doc-holmes]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

so why can some do it and others can't?

@fern*wood 

Buyers that use a mobile device do not have the option to request a total.  eBay's has been working on that for a few years now, and if you believe that.....

There was a discussion about this yesterday that provides other reasons it doesn't work.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyers-are-starting-to-get-the-message-and-getting-aggravated/...

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I've been able to request a total on a mobile device in the past if I used the web browser instead of the app. The website would need to be in "classic" mode. 

[carlmarxx]

I talked  with 2  U.S.  rep's and one a supervisor  about  this improvement   On seller offers. I pointed out as a seller I didn't  need it  and ebay needed to butt out  . And  That like  they  did  with GSP  to my listing's was De respecting me .  I pointed  out   that  ebay has the tools for  sellers in place  to deal with  buyers in categories that don't pay ,just  do BIN with  payment required   no make offers .    and it isn't my or  any other sellers problem if some sellers refuse to use the tools. 

[gurlcat]

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@sin-n-dex wrote:

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@tobaccocardyahoo wrote:

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There are buyers who hold Ebay sellers in extremely low regard. Generally based on their poor experiences with some Ebay sellers. There is plenty of bad history, and it is sometimes difficult to make it clear to some buyers that you are one of the good guys,

This has always been a drag on Ebay business.

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That low opinion explains some of the messages I get that are kind of out of the blue... being accused of doing something right off the bat instead of a simple question to follow up on whatever the issue is. I generally don't even know about the issue until I get a message like that, and it puts me on the defensive (which isn't really a good thing when replying to customers).

C.

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Ha you gave me a flashback.  I remember what it was like to get bowed-up messages like that, used to get them fairly regularly, but it's been a while.  Not to get too sociology-y, but I'd bet good money that if you did a study measuring hotheaded customers according to item categories, you would see some pretty strong correlations.  Coins ....hooooo-oo-EEE, yes!  When I was really into them, studying, sourcing, and slinging them (yeah I still have a few lousy ones posted) ..... I found myself in that defensive feeling you described pretty often.  Incidentally I got the same (and worse) feelings from participating in coin social media groups.  While there are certainly exceptions, that hobby is positively rife with ay- holes, and a lot of them can't separate the hobby from politics either.  Now were I sexist I might count it as evidence that men are jerks, because the coin hobby is very male-dominated.  But you know what other category fetched me a lot of confrontational customers as well?  -Ladies fashion.  Ooof.   

With jewelry, I swear, the difference in people (on eBay and even social media) is like night and day. There are certainly exceptions with this too, in fact a couple of my all-time worst interactions were with jewelry people who think their sh don't stink, but the vast majority are SUCH darlings!  And the only pre-loaded low opinion (of sellers) ones I get are with regard to packing.  Just got one this morning in fact.  Can't blame them because there ARE sellers who pack jewelry terribly; I've bought from them too. 

 But just look at the pains this one took to be polite and show that their concern isn't mindless prejudice against me.  😍



If you ever want to try your hand at selling jewelry here, hit me up and I can give you pointers on listing.  It's got a lot in common with coins really, but the customer base truly is a whole nother animal.