I didn’t include camera batteries...

[husicc]

I am a new seller on eBay and have been selling some of my old camera gear. I sold a camera body and in my listing I mentioned that the item includes the camera body, the strap, the front cap, the manual, and the original box. I did not include batteries or charger because they are still useable for my upgraded camera system. 

I sold the item, and now the buyer is complaining that the item is “not as described” because he says the term “camera body” automatically includes a battery and charger. On similar listings on eBay, I saw sellers specifically mention when batteries are included. I didn’t think I had to explicitly mention what wasn’t included. 

I offered to accept the return at which point I will offer a refund, but now the buyer is saying he will open a claim against me and will not return the camera until he is refunded. 

Am I in the wrong here? Did I do something wrong by not mentioning what is not included? I realize I could’ve been more explicit, but I it didn’t cross my mind because I thought I had stated exactly what was being sold. 

[walwalwill]

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@husicc wrote:

I didn’t think I had to explicitly mention what wasn’t included. 

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And now you see why you should've done that.

You can say "I thought..." or "I didn't think..." all you want. If the buyer agrees with you, then you're good. If they don't, then, well... Here you are.

For the record, when I was shopping for a new camera last month, not only did most of the listings that I looked at mention when they didn't include a battery or charger, they generally underlined and/or bolded it.

You opted to go a different way. And this is how it worked out.

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@husicc wrote:

I realize I could’ve been more explicit, but I it didn’t cross my mind because I thought I had stated exactly what was being sold. 

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You chose to leave it to the buyer (and, more importantly, the eBay rep) to decide what constitutes a "camera body".

The buyer already did so.

If you let it get to that point, the eBay rep will soon.

Do you think that they'll agree with your definition over the buyers? If you do, then fight it. If you don't, then send them a return label before it gets to that point.

[cherry*fizz]

Yes, you should be more explicit in the future. Lesson learned. 

Now as for how to deal with this buyer? Tell him "return for refund". Send him a shipping label. He can open a case through eBay but they will make him return the item as well before refunding him. Do not refund him until he sends it back. He can argue all he wants, but that's the way it works. If you send him a label there is no reason he should not return the camera before getting his refund. Do not give in and refund the money before you get the camera back. The only other option (IMO) would be to purchase a battery or charger and send it to him to make him whole.  You can argue about the wording (or lack of it) all day but the buyer isn't happy and it seems like a kind of gray area. Plus when you get it back you can relist and really spell out what is included. Good luck! 

[scalemotorcars]

This has happened to me. I sold some old SLR's that took the button batteries and had someone just insane that they had to purchase a $6 battery. They did the same thing, opened a case and demanded a refund before sending back. 

I told them that if they return something to a store they need to bring the item. NO store will give you a refund then ask you to drop the item off when you get around to. 

As for your listing. Was it still new in the sealed box? If not then you dont have to include anything thats not in your photos. If you took a pic with a battery and charger then your goofed and you need to send them but if your description and photos clearly show what you actually shipped then your fine. 

Just an FYI I put a line in my descriptions that says. "If you dont see it in the photos its not included" simple and to the point. 

[husicc]

The camera was out of the box and had been used lightly. None of the photos showed batteries. 

[walwalwill]

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@husicc wrote:

None of the photos showed batteries. 

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Did anyone of them show the bulb for the flash?

What about wires?

Solder?

If any of those things were missing, would the photos look any different?

Though removable, the battery goes inside the camera. You got a buyer who assumed that's where it was.

Take the advice or don't. It's your item or money on the line, not ours.

[mr_lincoln]

@husicc  For certain items Buyers will find a reason to try and get a partial refund or full refund keeping the item or force you to pay the return shipping for a SNAD (Significantly Not as Described).  Regardless of how you got where you did on this transaction the path of least resistence is to advise the Buyer to process a return for full refund, you pay the shipping and get the item back.  If its in good shape you can certainly relist it upon its return and describe EXACTLY what it is that is being sold.  If you have any doubt that the original listing was misleading then figure it was, learn from the experience and move on, don't take it personally, its business.

[scalemotorcars]

This really sounds like the buyer is trying to scam you for a partial refund. 

Its up to you. I would just ask them to return in the exact condition as shipped. And make sure you get the same camera back. Ive had them do the old switcheroo on me so check everything before they get a dime. 

Then immediately BAN his back side from every buying from you again. Bidder Block List is your friend. 

[ted_200]

Jeez...

Yeah, he should have said the battery and charger weren't included with a camera coming in its original box!  The battery sits in an internal compartment, there's no reason to think it isn't there, and the camera won't work without this stuff.

Post #2 is how to deal with the problem now, although if he and the buyer can talk to each other, a partial refund to buy a battery and charger, or sending the old ones to him and you get the new ones, can be a solution too.  But all any seller is obligated to do is "return for refund".

This isn't an attempt by anyone to scam anybody.  The over-reaction here on the Board, in both directions, is just breathtaking. 

[gew6463]

I am glad you said this. I would assume the battery came with it as well, unless it said otherwise (and most listings DO make a point of saying this when the battery/charger/even memory card is not included). At least that has been my experience with the MANY cameras we have bought from Ebay over the years. If I had won it cheap, I would just buy my own battery, and most likely not buy from the seller in the future. But if I had figured it into my bidding price, I would at least want to discuss it with the seller, and possibly return. But kudos to the seller for realizing and admitting they should have probably done it differently. Hope it all works out well in the end. 

[thatsallfolks]

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@husicc wrote:

I am a new seller on eBay and have been selling some of my old camera gear. I sold a camera body and in my listing I mentioned that the item includes the camera body, the strap, the front cap, the manual, and the original box. I did not include batteries or charger because they are still useable for my upgraded camera system. 

I sold the item, and now the buyer is complaining that the item is “not as described” because he says the term “camera body” automatically includes a battery and charger. On similar listings on eBay, I saw sellers specifically mention when batteries are included. I didn’t think I had to explicitly mention what wasn’t included. 

I offered to accept the return at which point I will offer a refund, but now the buyer is saying he will open a claim against me and will not return the camera until he is refunded. 

Am I in the wrong here? Did I do something wrong by not mentioning what is not included? I realize I could’ve been more explicit, but I it didn’t cross my mind because I thought I had stated exactly what was being sold. 

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Did you select a "condition" when you listed it? If you selected "Used", that means the item is in working condition, which isn't possible without the battery. And since this is a $30-50 battery, not a cheap "button cell" that you can buy at the local convenience store, it's definitely a problem and an unexpected expense.

[lintbrush*]

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

Did you select a "condition" when you listed it? If you selected "Used", that means the item is in working condition, which isn't possible without the battery. And since this is a $30-50 battery, not a cheap "button cell" that you can buy at the local convenience store, it's definitely a problem and an unexpected expense.

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I strongly disagree.  Many items are sold without a battery and that doesn't mean they aren't in working condition.  How many items in B&M stores say "Batteries Not Included" on brand new items?  Some phones need a SIM card to use, but it doesn't mean they aren't in working condition without one.

Now with the listing here, if the battery normally comes with the camera when sold new, it should've been disclosed that that battery wasn't included.  Even for listing it used, I would've included any information regarding items not included that would be necessary to function as a whole.

[thatsallfolks]

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@lintbrush* wrote:

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

Did you select a "condition" when you listed it? If you selected "Used", that means the item is in working condition, which isn't possible without the battery. And since this is a $30-50 battery, not a cheap "button cell" that you can buy at the local convenience store, it's definitely a problem and an unexpected expense.

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I strongly disagree.  Many items are sold without a battery and that doesn't mean they aren't in working condition.  How many items in B&M stores say "Batteries Not Included" on brand new items?  Some phones need a SIM card to use, but it doesn't mean they aren't in working condition without one.

Now with the listing here, if the battery normally comes with the camera when sold new, it should've been disclosed that that battery wasn't included.  Even for listing it used, I would've included any information regarding items not included that would be necessary to function as a whole.

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Yes, the battery comes with the camera when it's purchased new. And as I stated, it's a significant extra expense. The seller should have disclosed the absense of the battery.

[banana*shoe*boutique]

@husicc

I do think you should have stated what is and what is not included and I'm sure you've learned a valuable lesson for any future eBay listings.

Now you need to deal with what you currently have going on here.

In my opinion you have 2 options:

1 - Continue with "return for refund", pay the label, refund and relist 

2 - decide if sending the battery and charger is worth it to send and make the buyer whole.  I'd send the old ones and buy yourself new ones instead of offering money for them to buy new ones.

I am not sure what the battery and charger cost but for me, if I could send those and be out 10% or less of the sale, I would just do that.

I see a few sold by you so I'm not sure how expensive the camera in question is but if its the higher ones, I'd definitely just send the battery and charger but IF he goes with the return, PLEASE make sure it is insured!!!

[lintbrush*]

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

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@lintbrush* wrote:

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@thatsallfolks wrote:

Did you select a "condition" when you listed it? If you selected "Used", that means the item is in working condition, which isn't possible without the battery. And since this is a $30-50 battery, not a cheap "button cell" that you can buy at the local convenience store, it's definitely a problem and an unexpected expense.

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I strongly disagree.  Many items are sold without a battery and that doesn't mean they aren't in working condition.  How many items in B&M stores say "Batteries Not Included" on brand new items?  Some phones need a SIM card to use, but it doesn't mean they aren't in working condition without one.

Now with the listing here, if the battery normally comes with the camera when sold new, it should've been disclosed that that battery wasn't included.  Even for listing it used, I would've included any information regarding items not included that would be necessary to function as a whole.

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Yes, the battery comes with the camera when it's purchased new. And as I stated, it's a significant extra expense. The seller should have disclosed the absense of the battery.

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Oh,  I fully agree it should've been disclosed.  I just don't agree with your statement about "Used" and "working condition" when it comes to a battery being needed.