Charge Back Fraud

[themartinlady]

Buyers are allowed to initiate a charge back from their bank and not exactly through ebay.

This is a terrible loop hole.

We as sellers have no leverage or recourse. We are at the mercy of the bank who will protect their customer even though that customer is committing fraud.

The banks SUCK.

Ebay better figure out a way to protect the sellers.

I already took a break selling because I worried about the charge backs. Now it happened right off the bat.

I just spoke to ebay and they basically said there is nothing they can do and that this goes on everywhere. Anyone can dispute with any entity. Stores, cable companies, phone companies, etc. It is a terrible loop hole that the thieves exploit and the bank back up and the vendor (whoever it is) gets completely hosed.

Ebay really better figure out a way to protect the sellers or there will not be anyone willing to get sell and get screwed.

[slippinjimmy]

The only way to avoid credit card chargebacks is to not accept credit cards. If eBay were to stop accepting credit cards they might as well just lock the doors and send everyone home because that would be the end of eBay.

That said, how many credit card chargebacks have you had?

[rosszonebricks]

You are not guaranteed to 'lose' a chargeback, so eBay does 'protect the sellers'.

I've had 4 in the last 5 years.  I've not lost any of them.

From my last time a buyer did a chargeback dispute:

A decision has been made about the dispute that was filed by XXXXXXXX. The dispute was found in your favor. You don't have to pay anything back and no further action is needed from you.

[lakefor94]

If a seller takes care of business with the buyer, there should not be many opportunities for chargebacks.  Such as accepting returns, getting the item back and refunding. When the buyer files for INAD with a credit card, chances of winning are slim.

The chargebacks for not recognizing the transaction and item not received are winnable. 

What was the reason given by the bank for the chargeback?  

[maxine*j]

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@lakefor94 wrote:

If a seller takes care of business with the buyer, there should not be many opportunities for chargebacks.  Such as accepting returns, getting the item back and refunding.   When the buyer files for INAD with a credit card, chances of winning are slim.

The chargebacks for not recognizing the transaction and item not received are winnable. 

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Agreed.

Not all chargebacks are fraudulent.  Over on the Buying board, experienced sellers not infrequently tell buyers to do PayPal or credit card chargebacks. 

Why?  Because inexperienced buyers who receive rubbish really do believe they have to work things out with the sellers, and they really do believe sellers' "No Returns" nonsense.  It's easy, then, for rotten sellers to string them along with various delaying tactics until the 30-day MBG expired. 

I'm not dismissing the pain and loss from an illegitimate chargeback, but adding to you point that not all of them are  illegitimate.

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[12345jamesstamps]

A buyer uses a chargeback sometimes as a last resort. Some sellers refuse to deal with a buyer and as a last resort the buyer has to act on their own. It is in the interest of the seller to make the buyer happy and with the buyer before eBay gets involved.

Usually the bank with do one courtesy chargeback in a monthly cycle. So doing many will make the buyer possible lose in the future disputes. Disputes can be anything like an Uber ride or an Doorsdash food delivery and so on. Plus the buyer will be added to blocked list by the seller for future purchases.

[gurlcat]

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@themartinlady wrote:

Buyers are allowed to initiate a charge back from their bank and not exactly through ebay.

This is a terrible loop hole.

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Can you explain what you mean by that?  It sounds like you're talking about something other than the normal chargeback method we're all familiar with.  But "not exactly through ebay" -how could ebay not be involved?  As far as the bank is concerned, the purchase was made FROM EBAY, not any individual seller.  So there is no way for the bank customer to get their money back from a seller without going through ebay.  

[robbie31415]

Chargebacks aren't a loop hole. It's a reality that every retailer that accepts credit cards has to accept.

EBay has to agree to visas, and every other type of card in order for it to be used for payment.

This is just the reality to credit card sales.

[vintagepl]

It is a problem & seems to be happening more & more. I myself had 1 chargeback in 23 years. It was for $400 & from a scammer in China. Now I will not sell anything over $100 to China. Yes before anyone starts yelling, my own independant research has shown me that the majority of scammers are in fact located in China. It is also widely known that you will never win a chargeback if they used an Amex card. That is why so many businnes refuse to take Amex. It is the unfortunate cost of business. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. 

[mam98031]

Chargebacks have always been a factor we have had to deal with since the beginning of accepting Credit Cards and Debit Cards.  Before Ebay was handling our payments, buyers still filed them and it came to our attention that a Chargeback was filed through PayPal.  These are not new and they aren't anything that any site can avoid.  It is part of the price of accepting CCs and DCs.  No way around it.

No loop holes here, sorry.

I disagree that we are helpless when this happens.  When a seller gets a Chargeback, they need to collect ALL their evidence, to include messages from the buyer before and after the sale.  Submit all that info on the Chargeback.

Ebay's hands are tied too.  But they can get our evidence to the CCC for processing.  Sometimes we do win.

[gurlcat]

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@mam98031 wrote:

Ebay's hands are tied too.  But they can get our evidence to the CCC for processing.  Sometimes we do win.

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I have yet to lose one.  Granted I haven't had many (about 4 I think), but I fought and won them all.  
EDIT: I should rephrase. I "lost" some of them, but ebay honored my seller protections and covered the refunds to the buyers, without touching my funds.  I can't remember the ratio of wins/lost w/protection.  

[fashunu4eeuh]

This has long been one of the risks of selling online. Venues as well as sellers contend with the credit card companies.

It is up to each seller to consider such losses, and build them into their pricing and business strategies. 

[mam98031]

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@gurlcat wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

Ebay's hands are tied too.  But they can get our evidence to the CCC for processing.  Sometimes we do win.

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I have yet to lose one.  Granted I haven't had many (about 4 I think), but I fought and won them all.  
EDIT: I should rephrase. I "lost" some of them, but ebay honored my seller protections and covered the refunds to the buyers, without touching my funds.  I can't remember the ratio of wins/lost w/protection.  

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It is a piece of cake to win them if the buyer files an INR with their CCC as long as the seller can produce tracking that shows delivered.

If a buyer is claiming they don't recognize the charge, that is another easy one to give evidence on and win.

But if the buyer claims it is broken, not as described, etc, not so easy.  It is possible to win some of these, but it take very good evidence.  And you have to submit it timely so they see it before deciding.

[agemelee]

just use ebay’s EIS. Even if they do a chargeback or return you keep the money. Ebay eats the cost. 

[gurlcat]

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@mam98031 wrote:

But if the buyer claims it is broken, not as described, etc, not so easy.  It is possible to win some of these, but it take very good evidence.  And you have to submit it timely so they see it before deciding.

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Actually the one I remember best was an INAD, the buyer had tried to get a partial refund without photos, but was thwarted because I encouraged her to initiate a return for a full refund (on my dime of course, free returns).  So then she filed a chargeback.  But the reason this one really stands out in my memory is the way I was told to handle it, by both a phone CSR and a Facebook rep (in fact I believe this was the first time I contacted them, on advice from people here in the community).  -This was when you could upload only ONE file as evidence for your case, and both of these employees were telling me to just upload a screenshot of the tracking showing delivery date.   This made no sense to me because it wasn't an INR, but they were both like "Trust me, just do it."  So I did.  Then however many days later the CC decided in their own customer's favor of course .... but ebay covered it for me; I didn't even have to make a formal appeal or even another phone call. 

I guess the reason those employees told me to just upload tracking was to affirm within ebay's own system that the buyer definitely had the item, therefore could have filed a return if she wanted, since it wouldn't cost her anything, therefore I had done everything ebay could ask of a seller.  I don't even think being a TRS was part of it (nothing in the list of perks states anything about extra protection), but having 30 days free returns does.