Buyer had mail forwarded, now claims item not received.

[americana-jewels]

So, I sold a item about 2 weeks ago, $150 sale, shipped priority mail. Tracking shows that item was out for delivery in the town that it was suppsed to be delivered in, but that afternoon, it showed that item was 'forwarded'-- and then tracking shows it made its way to a city about 500 miles north of where it was supposed to be delivered.

So,.... buyer ripping me off? They have it forwarded some how so that they can claim item not received?

just to be clear, I produced the shipping label through ebay shipping; all that shipping info automatically built into the shipping label by eBay.  I've sold on ebay full time (under another ID also,) for 11 years, and this is the first time I've seen this situation. 

tracking history is below:

November 9, 2018, 4:14 pm 
Delivered, Front Door/Porch 
NAPA, CA 94558  
Your item was delivered at the front door or porch at 4:14 pm on November 9, 2018 in NAPA, CA 94558. 

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November 8, 2018, 9:09 am 
Arrived at Post Office 
NAPA, CA 94558  

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November 8, 2018, 3:36 am 
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility 
OAKLAND CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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November 7, 2018 
In Transit to Next Facility 

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November 6, 2018, 1:38 am 
Departed USPS Regional Facility 
SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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November 6, 2018, 12:34 am 
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility 
SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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October 31, 2018, 6:15 pm 
Forwarded 
LA QUINTA, CA  

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October 31, 2018, 4:02 pm 
Forwarded 
LA QUINTA, CA  

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October 31, 2018, 8:14 am 
Out for Delivery 
LA QUINTA, CA 92253  

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October 31, 2018, 8:04 am 
Sorting Complete 
LA QUINTA, CA 92253  

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October 31, 2018, 6:30 am 
Arrived at Post Office 
LA QUINTA, CA 92253  

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October 31, 2018, 6:12 am 
Arrived at USPS Facility 
LA QUINTA, CA 92253  

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October 31, 2018, 3:45 am 
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility 
SAN BERNARDINO CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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October 31, 2018, 2:12 am 
Departed USPS Regional Facility 
LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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October 30, 2018, 6:51 pm 
Arrived at USPS Regional Origin Facility 
LOS ANGELES CA DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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October 30, 2018, 5:36 pm 
Accepted at USPS Regional Origin Facility 
LOS ANGELES CA NETWORK DISTRIBUTION CENTER  

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October 27, 2018, 1:40 pm 
Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item 
BELL GARDENS, CA 90201  

[americana-jewels]

Ryan- Right - good question -- why would it go out for delivery if it as a standard mail forward request set in place---

And What would you all say are the odds that the two parties are relatives or friends at the two different addresses?

[dtexley3]

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@americana-jewels wrote:

Ryan- Right - good question -- why would it go out for delivery if it as a standard mail forward request set in place---

And What would you all say are the odds that the two parties are relatives or friends at the two different addresses?

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I've found it's not uncommon for the item to be marked "out for delivery" before it's caught as fowarded.

@Anonymous  I thought sellers were protected (on eBay) when the buyer was having their mail forwarded.  If this is still the case, what are the correct next steps for the OP to take in order to get their funds restored?

[americana-jewels]

Ok, so....

I just got off the phone with eBay. I ended up with "Andrew" in resolutions, and he closed the case in my favor.

So, it went down like this: I called in and I got India call center, apparently. ( I should have used my phone instead of my wife's because I have a good sized seller account attached to my phone and I believe it would have given me a call center here in the states.) -- but anyway, I call in, I get India-- The rep checks it out and puts me on hold for a minute, and he looks into it. He gets back to me and says, I should go ahead and respond to the case -- and that it should be found in my favor. So, I ask the eBay rep: "Ok, can you tell me for CERTAIN that it will be found in my favor, because if it's NOT found in my favor, then I will be calling back and telling them that eBay rep So and So told me at 5:03 PM on Tuesday that it would be found in my favor" , etc, etc. (I was polite, but direct)-- so the guy says, hold on, let me see if I can get you someone else-- so he transfers me to Andrew,  I think in the "resolutions" department or something to that effect. Andrew sounds like he is in the states. (No accent whatsoever): my point being that he has the authority to do something, not the rep in India who just has a standard protocol to follow. So, as I write this, I just got an email from eBay that the case was closed in my favor, the buyer gets no refund. It's done. (except for the negative feedback probably headed my way)   -- ( I wonder if I will be able to get a negative removed in this case....)

So, there it is, people, thanks for your responses....

[nowthatsjustducky]

Since the case was found in your favor, feedback should be totally off the table.  You can test this by seeing if you can leave one for the buyer (shouldn't have to go all the way with it since there is no point in rewarding your buyer with an undeserved positive, just see if it will let you).

It is a good bet that the CSR deemed this...

October 31, 2018, 8:14 am 
Out for Delivery 
LA QUINTA, CA 92253

to be the equivalent of a delivery, in much the same way they would if the next thing was REFUSED instead of FORWARDED.

He could try for another 2 trips to the pig trough (PayPal and CC chargeback), but those are even easier to win than here, at the cost of a minor bit of inconvenience.

[Anonymous]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@americana-jewels wrote:

Ryan- Right - good question -- why would it go out for delivery if it as a standard mail forward request set in place---

And What would you all say are the odds that the two parties are relatives or friends at the two different addresses?

---

I've found it's not uncommon for the item to be marked "out for delivery" before it's caught as fowarded.

@Anonymous  I thought sellers were protected (on eBay) when the buyer was having their mail forwarded.  If this is still the case, what are the correct next steps for the OP to take in order to get their funds restored?

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Hi @dtexley3, when a package is forwarded beyond the original delivery location, the item is no longer eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee. The OP just needs to contact Customer Service to have an appeal reviewed for appropriate action.

[ryanofvermont]

My case was sitting unresolved for a while. I had uploaded tracking info (even though eBay already had it because I printed the label through eBay) and it said waiting for buyer response. This morning I got two emails in quick succession, one saying the buyer contacted eBay and asked for the case to be reviewed and resolved, and another saying it was resolved in the buyer's favor, and they were taking money away from me! 

I called eBay and at first they said I had to call the post office in California and ask why it was forwarded. I said 1) that's not my job; and 2) no one there is going to remember who asked for it to be forwarded, a month ago; and 3) the phone number I googled for the 2 POs in Los Gatos were both the same 800 number, which means a call center, which means they're just going to look up the tracking number just like we've been doing. I also asked to speak to a supervisor. After several holds, and quite a bit of me politely arguing, they reversed the decision and gave me my money back. 

Hopefully, putting "DO NOT FORWARD" on future packages (and perhaps taking a photo of this, proving I wrote that on the packages) will prevent this in the future. I'm also wondering whether I should, on more expensive listings, saying in the listing, "Due to being a victim of a scam in the past, I will be putting "DO NOT FORWARD" on the package. If you are such a scammer, don't bother trying it with me." Because it's better to not get involved in such a situation, rather than get involved but win the case. And what happens when you say don't forward and the PO returns it to you (the seller)? Does the buyer get their money back? I'd be ok with them getting their money back, minus the shipping, and I can re-list it.

But I'm worried that putting that statement in my listings will scare away some potential good buyers...

[ryanofvermont]

Oh, and I also still have the buyer's negative feedback... 😞  I'll have to contact eBay before long and ask if I can have that removed... 

[ersatz_sobriquet]

@ryanofvermont

Upthread you will read that buyers that forward packages lose the MBG protection, so you should be able to call CS and have this reversed (which will mean ebay paying for the mistake not the buyer). 

[ryanofvermont]

I did call and have it reversed, as I said, but it took a lot of arguing. Also, he claimed he didn't forward it, but the PO forwarded it, so to get to the bottom of it, someone would have to call the PO and look into it, and I wasn't willing to do that. Hence the arguing, and getting the decision reversed.

[lewisburggold]

Thats just crazy how they can do that.  There has got to be a way that only the sender can forward if needed to.  Is there no security questions at all? or can just anyone call and have it forwarded somewere els.  Best regards

[hyperrush]

Tracking says delivered. Buyer should not win if he chooses item not received. Cheers

[sly_kitten2018]

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@lewisburggold wrote:

Thats just crazy how they can do that.  There has got to be a way that only the sender can forward if needed to.  Is there no security questions at all? or can just anyone call and have it forwarded somewere els.  Best regards

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when dealing with usps, the receiver has a lot of control. informed delivery allows one to control all incoming packages. no phone call necessary. 

[postingid2017]

I am not sure if USPS & UPS, however, FedEx does allow the shipper to not allow any forwarding.  I've used it a few times at work and online selling.  Just do not use eBay's FedEx account because eBay owns it and is not the "actual" shipper.

[emerald40]

Back in the day - 2007, my mom went into a nursing home so I needed to have all her mail forwarded to me.

I had to go into the Post Office, show them my power of attorney, my driver's license, papework from her doctor and the nursing home to prove who I was and that I had the authority to do so.

This should not be allowed to be done over the phone.  Too much room for fraud.

[gramophone-georg]

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@ryanofvermont wrote:
I did call and have it reversed, as I said, but it took a lot of arguing. Also, he claimed he didn't forward it, but the PO forwarded it, so to get to the bottom of it, someone would have to call the PO and look into it, and I wasn't willing to do that. Hence the arguing, and getting the decision reversed.

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That's just stupid. The PO can't just arbitrarily forward mail. The CS rep BOUGHT this nonsense?