What Would You Do?

[doc-holmes]

I'd like to preface this by saying the money is not an issue. It's such a small amount, I really don't care. I was just surprised by the seller's response and I'm wondering if you think this is fair. This is more of a sociological experiment for me. 

I purchased a hockey card for $5.50 with $3.50 shipping, from US to Canada. It arrived yesterday but the envelope was sliced open and the card had been stolen. It wasn't even in one of those baggies with a "sorry about your luck" note or anything. Just an empty envelope.

I contacted the seller of course, asking for a refund. The seller's take is we have basically both been ripped off, and he offered to refund the card price but not the shipping. I know technically I can open a case (INAD, I think, something was technically received) and get refunded in full, but I'm unsure I want to make a stink over $3.50. But...there's also a part of me that is mildly annoyed the seller is trying to nickel and dime his way out of a full refund he's technically supposed to give. 

Thoughts? 

[doc-holmes]

Good take. I'm not going to file a case for the $3.50, I'll take the seller's offer. If the roles were reversed I'd refund the full amount without hesitation, though. But I'm a "pick your battles" kind of guy, and I'm not going to start a confrontation over $3.50. Working in customer service much of my life though, I have seen people throw temper tantrums and lose all respect over less. 

[aeparts1]

As a seller, sometimes you just have to put mustard on it & eat it.

If I was the seller in this situation I would give the buyer a full refund.

[monster-deals]

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@divwido wrote:

Why are you blaming the seller?  

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Because it is the seller's responsibility.

That isn't ebay 110 that's remedial ebay. 

[donsdetour]

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@doc-holmes wrote:

I'd like to preface this by saying the money is not an issue. It's such a small amount, I really don't care. I was just surprised by the seller's response and I'm wondering if you think this is fair. This is more of a sociological experiment for me. 

I purchased a hockey card for $5.50 with $3.50 shipping, from US to Canada. It arrived yesterday but the envelope was sliced open and the card had been stolen. It wasn't even in one of those baggies with a "sorry about your luck" note or anything. Just an empty envelope.

I contacted the seller of course, asking for a refund. The seller's take is we have basically both been ripped off, and he offered to refund the card price but not the shipping. I know technically I can open a case (INAD, I think, something was technically received) and get refunded in full, but I'm unsure I want to make a stink over $3.50. But...there's also a part of me that is mildly annoyed the seller is trying to nickel and dime his way out of a full refund he's technically supposed to give. 

Thoughts? 

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Fact:

The seller is responsible to get you the item in the condition claimed. That includes shipping to the addy on file.

Fact:

The seller ows you a full refund.

Any other argument is in error. That buyers guarantee cover you wen you receive and empty package due to it is nut as described.

Now on the other hand, such is used to scam sellers so a report should be filed with shipper and law enforcement.  Scammers just keep doing such and that is what get them caught.

[reallynicestamps]

I would report the damaged envelope to the local postmaster and to the local police, both basically for thier records, because it appears there is a thief targeting mail boxes.

And I would rethink how I receive my mail.

Do you have one of those insecure boxes at the end of the driveway? The three packages were not in the Parcels box of a community mailbox?

On the whole though, I don't think the seller was to blame nor is she responsible.

Did you have a choice in the service she used?

The package got to you.

No rifling was noticed by the carrier or any other post office employee before it reached your box.

Two other, differently packaged items, were not disturbed.

To me, that means the seller sent the card (not an empty envelope faked to look rifled.)

I would accept the seller's offer to refund the cost of the card.

[doc-holmes]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

I would report the damaged envelope to the local postmaster and to the local police, both basically for thier records, because it appears there is a thief targeting mail boxes.

And I would rethink how I receive my mail.

Do you have one of those insecure boxes at the end of the driveway? The three packages were not in the Parcels box of a community mailbox?

On the whole though, I don't think the seller was to blame nor is she responsible.

Did you have a choice in the service she used?

The package got to you.

No rifling was noticed by the carrier or any other post office employee before it reached your box.

Two other, differently packaged items, were not disturbed.

To me, that means the seller sent the card (not an empty envelope faked to look rifled.)

I would accept the seller's offer to refund the cost of the card.

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I ended up accepting their offer. I feel that was the fair thing to do in this specific situation. I will argue however, that the item was stolen in transit. It logically doesn't make sense for a porch theif to leave the two bubble mailers, and take the extra time of slicing the envelope open and taking the contents, rather than just taking it whole. 

[doc-holmes]

I'm assuming it was opened to have the contents stolen. I've never seen an envelope just open up at the end like this. Here's the pic I sent the seller. 

 

[donsdetour]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

I would report the damaged envelope to the local postmaster and to the local police, both basically for thier records, because it appears there is a thief targeting mail boxes.

And I would rethink how I receive my mail.

Do you have one of those insecure boxes at the end of the driveway? The three packages were not in the Parcels box of a community mailbox?

On the whole though, I don't think the seller was to blame nor is she responsible.

Did you have a choice in the service she used?

The package got to you.

No rifling was noticed by the carrier or any other post office employee before it reached your box.

Two other, differently packaged items, were not disturbed.

To me, that means the seller sent the card (not an empty envelope faked to look rifled.)

I would accept the seller's offer to refund the cost of the card.

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Policy is that the seller is responsible for the shipper. Why do folks not understand this???

Its typical business law folks.

eBay does not allow FOB....its buyers guarantee is the reason for all of this.

[divwido]

But you don't know that.  Maybe the kid down the street was looking through mail boxes.

I've had my mail and packages stolen.  That wasn't the sellers fault that some jerk took our mail.  it was delivered-their job was done.  that was my fault for not replacing the stupid unlocked mail box. 

I'm just asking for a little common sense.  I know, how stupid.

[doc-holmes]

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@divwido wrote:

But you don't know that.  Maybe the kid down the street was looking through mail boxes.

I've had my mail and packages stolen.  That wasn't the sellers fault that some jerk took our mail.  it was delivered-their job was done.  that was my fault for not replacing the stupid unlocked mail box. 

I'm just asking for a little common sense.  I know, how stupid.

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You're right, we don't know. But it doesn't make any sense for someone to walk up to my mailbox, leave the two bubble mailers, carefully slice the envelope open along the edge and remove the contents. They would grab it all and go.

As I mentioned before though, I don't won't to through a whole thing just for $3.50. I took the seller's offer. 

[donsdetour]

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@doc-holmes wrote:

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@divwido wrote:

But you don't know that.  Maybe the kid down the street was looking through mail boxes.

I've had my mail and packages stolen.  That wasn't the sellers fault that some jerk took our mail.  it was delivered-their job was done.  that was my fault for not replacing the stupid unlocked mail box. 

I'm just asking for a little common sense.  I know, how stupid.

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You're right, we don't know. But it doesn't make any sense for someone to walk up to my mailbox, leave the two bubble mailers, carefully slice the envelope open along the edge and remove the contents. They would grab it all and go.

As I mentioned before though, I don't won't to through a whole thing just for $3.50. I took the seller's offer. 

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As a seller I thank you for doing such... Good luck in the times to come.

[monster-deals]

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@divwido wrote:

But you don't know that.  Maybe the kid down the street was looking through mail boxes.

I've had my mail and packages stolen.  That wasn't the sellers fault that some jerk took our mail.  it was delivered-their job was done.  that was my fault for not replacing the stupid unlocked mail box. 

I'm just asking for a little common sense.  I know, how stupid.

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It doesn't matter who, how, why or where.

It is 100% the sellers responsibility and always will be.

Where is your common sense on this one? Seriously this is day one stuff here.

[maxine*j]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

...  On the whole though, I don't think the seller was to blame nor is she responsible...

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I don't know Canadian law, but in the U.S. the seller is  responsible,  whether or not the seller is to blame.   In the U.S. Uniform Commercial Code it is termed the "perfect tender rule," and there are no exceptions to the rule:  The seller is responsible for the delivery of the goods to the buyer and in precisely the condition described.  Period. 

So, no matter whose fault  it was that the item was not delivered, it is still the seller's responsibility  to make the buyer whole.   (The seller can then go after whoever is to blame, and seek reimbursement, but that's a separate matter and does not involve the buyer.)

This is very old law, codifed in the UCC, and I imagine it's the same in Canada, since Canada and U.S. drew most of their common law from the same source, the UK.

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[buyselljack2016]

I do not see it as theft of the item along the way.

How thick was the envelope?

Mail processing machinery does not handle mail with kid gloves.  Envelopes zip through sometimes ripping open allowing the contents to be lost. Basically goes unnoticed unless the item is thick enough to jam up the works.

By USPS postal regulations can "merchandise"  be shipped in a plain envelope? I  think not.

To me it appears to be a seller error.

[buyselljack2016]

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:
 

My post should have read

By USPS postal regulations can "merchandise"  be shipped    TO CANADA   in a plain envelope? I  think not.

To me it appears to be a seller error.

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