What Would You Do?

[doc-holmes]

I'd like to preface this by saying the money is not an issue. It's such a small amount, I really don't care. I was just surprised by the seller's response and I'm wondering if you think this is fair. This is more of a sociological experiment for me. 

I purchased a hockey card for $5.50 with $3.50 shipping, from US to Canada. It arrived yesterday but the envelope was sliced open and the card had been stolen. It wasn't even in one of those baggies with a "sorry about your luck" note or anything. Just an empty envelope.

I contacted the seller of course, asking for a refund. The seller's take is we have basically both been ripped off, and he offered to refund the card price but not the shipping. I know technically I can open a case (INAD, I think, something was technically received) and get refunded in full, but I'm unsure I want to make a stink over $3.50. But...there's also a part of me that is mildly annoyed the seller is trying to nickel and dime his way out of a full refund he's technically supposed to give. 

Thoughts? 

[divwido]

I have a thought, but I don't think you are going to like it.

Why are you blaming the seller?   Someone sliced the envelope open, only got a $ 5 hockey card for their trouble and when did this become the sellers fault?  

They mailed it and someone intercepted it hoping for money.  Not your fault, not their fault.  It happens.

[1tuna]

I think this is too much over $9.....its cringeworthy

what kind of seller is going to haggle over $9

it does not cost the seller much to make you whole

they should just refund the money but a part of me wants to believe they will make you return  it

[albertabrightalberta]

Interesting discussion. 

As we say so often (IRL), it's not the money, it's the principle. 

While I agree with @divwido that a compromise won't break either of you, that's not the point. 

I'm with @1tuna as to how I think you should handle it. The fact is that you bought and paid for something and didn't get what you paid for. It's NAD. 

The other thing to consider is that if you ever plan to buy from the seller in the future, you'll likely be blocked from doing so.

[soh.maryl]

Somehow I thought that the post office would have noticed this.  When, a long time ago, I received a package that had been opened and the contents removed (not an eBay purchase), the empty package was enclosed in a zip lock bag and it had a stamped message about the package being empty when received.  

[divwido]

maybe the mail person is thief.   Maybe they don't have a locked mail box and someone was looking for something to take after it was delivered.

Too many variables.   Not worth it for $ 9 to me.

[doc-holmes]

That's what I'm getting at. Again...it's only $9, I really don't care about that. I'm more curious if people believe we should just all play by the rules without question here, or if the seller has a legit point. Would opinions be the same if it was $90, or $900? I'm not griping about a tiny amount of money, I just thought it would be an interesting discussion, as you said. 

[mudshark61369]

@doc-holmes,

You say the envelope was sliced open. Going by that description of its condition, it seems to me that both you and the seller were ripped off.   Since this does not on the face of it, appear to be a case of poor packaging, this is one of the gray area situations that ebay does not cover.  Technically, you are right the seller is responsible for safe delivery, and should issue a full refund.  However, I can understand their position of offering a refund of the purchase price only. 

If the seller is a high volume one, I would file the dispute. If they do not do much selling I might agree to the partial refund since they are out both the money and the card. 

[bonjourami]

Unusual that the sliced open envelope wasnt noted with a postal stamped notice that the contents were removed. Maybe it happened after delivery. I too, have had an item removed from the envelope, a $300 gold charm, and the postal notice was on the envelope.

[doc-holmes]

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@bonjourami wrote:

Unusual that the sliced open envelope wasnt noted with a postal stamped notice that the contents were removed. Maybe it happened after delivery. I too, have had an item removed from the envelope, a $300 gold charm, and the postal notice was on the envelope.

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It's extremely odd. It wasn't stolen by the letter carrier or anyone post-delivery as there were two other bubble mailers (the stolen card was in a plain white envelope) with cards in them in the mailbox at the same time. I would assume any thief would take them all. This would have been stolen in-transit. I guess nobody else caught it. 

[maxine*j]

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@doc-holmes wrote:

...I'm more curious if people believe we should just all play by the rules without question here, or if the seller has a legit point...

---

My opinion:

The seller does not have a "legit point," because no matter whose fault  this is, it is the seller's responsibility and liability to see that you get either the item you paid for or a full refund.   Doesn't matter what an item is, or what it cost, or why or by whom it was lost or damaged or not as described.

Then, if the seller cares to, the seller can try to find who was at fault and make that entity or person reimburse him in the amount he reimbursed his buyer. 

I think all sellers must play by the rules, or there'd be nothing but endless dispute and chaos in the marketplace.  You seller owes you a full refund, for the card and the shipping.

Now, whether you want to pursue this or give your seller a break for whatever personal reason you may have, that's another matter.   (Once, in a similar situation, I split the difference with a seller because I wanted to continue to do business with him and, frankly, I could bear the loss better than he could, at that time.)

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[titipeo]

I suffered a similar situation myself as a seller, valued was about $16 with shipping included. Buyer provided me pictures of the opened parcel, along with the zipped baggie and letter indicating that is how it was received at the postal facility, I immediately refunded the whole amount. Buyer thanked me. 

As for the previous comment from @doc-holmes  about what if the value was $90, $900, ... At that price point, I certainly will be getting insurance involved and raise a case with the postal service and have the buyer assist me with that, while I also refunded him.

As for the buyer, eBay's MBG will make you whole if you file a Item Not Described case. It's $3.5 what's in question, the seller is probably trying to find ways to minimize his loss. Regardless, consider your self being blocked by him, and you should do the same for him.

[justafemster]

The seller chose the shipping.  That's why the seller is being blamed. 

I'm guessing they get away with sticking it in an envi 999 out of 1000 times with no problem.  This time there was a problem.  

It's completely on the seller. 

[kathiec]

So here's another perspective. Several years ago I purchased a vintage doll kimono from a seller in Japan. It was several hundred dollars, and I'm sure shipping wasn't cheap, although I don't remember what I paid for it. She shipped it in an EMS envelope. When it arrived I had to sign, so the mail carrier placed it in my hands. Neither he nor I noticed at that moment that the glue had given out on one entire side of the envelope, and the contents were long gone.

When I discovered this I immediately messaged the seller to ask how she'd like to proceed. Within an hour of my sending the message I had a full refund, including postage, and a message saying she'd like to send me a gift to help make up for my disappointment (I refused, not wanting her to be out any more money). I sent her photos of the envelope and even made a trip to my PO so they could inspect the envelope.

I have no idea if the seller ever collected on an insurance claim. But she was incredibly gracious in accepting responsibility for something that clearly was not her fault. It's too bad this card seller couldn't have been equally gracious. When you sell, inevitably stuff happens. Dealing with that stuff is, IMHO, the cost of doing business. That said, I personally wouldn't file a case over $3.50, but that's just me.

[titipeo]

Good point @kathiec , buyer already has the $5.50 offer from seller. The $3.50 will involve filling a Item Not as Described, wait the allotted time for seller to provide full refund, or submit a return label at sellers cost (doubt he will do it as it seems) or have eBay step in, all for $3.50. Seems too much, but, eBay always ask buyers and sellers to solve their issues first, before filling a case. Buyer has tried to solve issue and received an answer that buyer does not appear to like, next step is the filling the case, or dropping it.